All aboard the hypocracy express!

It’s Cinco de Mayo, and to celebrate, Marty has fired off a little revisionist history. In today’s blog entry, Marty writes about AnonSparrow being acquitted of charges brought by the Church of Scientology. Marty says:

“[The Church’s] tactics of lying to law enforcement and spending thousands upon thousands to influence prosecutors in order to abuse the processes of law so as to “dead agent” a single person execercising [sic] his or her constitutional rights is unconscionable.”

Really? Then WHY THE FUCK DIDN’T YOU AND YOUR LITTLE PET MIKE RINDER DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT WHEN YOU WORKED FOR THEM??!?!?!!!?

Marty was David Miscavige’s right-hand guy. He was head ethics thug. And Mike was a big deal in OSA. They KNEW all this stuff was going on. And what did they do to stop it? NOTHING. FUCK ALL. JACK SHIT. DIDN’T LIFT A FUCKING FINGER.

Now, I’d have a lot more respect for Marty if I believed he tried to fight this while he was in the Church’s employ, and quit in protest when he couldn’t make changes. But as we all know that’s not what happened.

Marty left because of the way the Church was treating him.

And now, because he’s getting the “diet” version done on him (Marty hasn’t had to endure anything near what people like Bob Minton, David Mayo, even Mark Bunker) he has the balls to say this is wrong, without even admitting his part in it?

And by the way, has anyone noticed how much less vicious the Church seems to be since Marty left?

I’m too angry to follow my usual modus operandi in which I soberly quote the policies that show the Church is acting as mandated by L. Ron Hubbard. And what pisses me off even more is that people might read Marty’s bullshit and think he’s some sort of champion of Church reform.

Fact is, if Marty was in charge instead of Miscavige, the Church would be doing the exact same things it always did. (And maybe we’d be reading this bullshit on Miscavige’s blog!)

Want to do me a favor? Post a comment on Marty’s blog asking why he didn’t work to stop this shit when he was Miscavige’s employee. Or ask him about the LRH policies that outline how to carry out this type of harassment. Your posts will most likely be censored (feel free to add it to my Censored by Marty section) or posted with a bunch of folks accusing you of being an OSA agent and an enemy of freedom, but that’s okay — a dozen or so comments calling Marty out on his bullshit might be enough to rattle his cage and remind him that he can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

ML,
Caliwog

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29 responses to “All aboard the hypocracy express!

  1. John Williamson

    Posted today, soon to be removed:

    “Why didn’t our blog host stop things like that while HE was the one doing the harassment? Why has the cult’s actual harassments toned down since Marty left? Could it be that he was the source of most of the ‘bad’ stuff?”

    • It hasn’t been deleted. They’ve chosen to pretend you are David Miscavige instead.

      My comment got through without comment so far bringing up Paulette Cooper and the policy of using the law to harass.

  2. John Williamson

    Well, I have been insulted by the best of them, but to call me miscavage takes the cake! I guess reality will never intrude on the dark minds of $cientologists!

  3. John Williamson

    MY reply:
    “I have been insulted by the best of them, but to be called cwazy widdle davy…perfect. Absolute proof that anybody that disagrees with you is automatically called OSA or worse, can you say ”declared’! (when are you guys gonna build your own RPF, per ElRon?)
    Never been a $cilon, but if you can’t tell the difference, then you are farther gone than even I thought. The amusement value of this blog is truly amazing.”

    I really mean that…this is more fun than watching the circus!

  4. lurker(not the mostly)

    Chuck Beatty | May 5, 2011 at 9:45 pm | Reply Only reason David Miscavige would have “toned down” his staff beatings, is because the main punching bags blew!

    And DM then saw the potential writing on the wall, and he decided to tone it down, at least for a few years until the statute of limitations on his last beatings run out, and then he’ll likely start a new round of beatings!

    Or DM will be more selective in his beatings, and only beats people he is pretty sure won’t blow the whistle on him!

    Does Elliot Abelson know DM beat up people? I wonder if Elliot advised DM to stop risking getting charged with battery, etc.

    martyrathbun09 | May 5, 2011 at 10:33 pm | Reply Wrong – they escalated till we called him out on it publicly. PERIOD.

    Now this is funny!! You go from talking about fair gaming protestors, and turn it neatly into beating staff members, which of Course! marty called DM out on, publicly…. Yet completely ignoring his fair gaming while in the koo koo house…

    I used to have a lot of sympathy for exes caught in this bullshit, but frankly, if they have so few critical thinking skills that they can’t figure out martys spin for the BS it is, frankly its a wonder they can tie their shoes or refrain from drooling…

  5. “Marty left because of the way the Church was treating him.”

    How about the Australian father who had two kids accidentally die in the cult? He stuck it out for how many years after that.

    In my first months of reading stories by adults in the cult, I was curious about this phenomenon of things happening to people all around them (kids in chain lockers, people bound and thrown overboard, members killing themselves), yet until they themselves go through a big problem, it hardly phases them.

    And even then, doing the time in the RPF or whatever, it never dawns on them people on the outside don’t go through this humiliation, and all of this really isn’t saving the planet.

    When Quentin suicides, they don’t realize Hubbard didn’t have control over MEST? He couldn’t even make life bearable for his own son.

    M&M had too much to do with fair-gaming Bob Minton and destroying the LM Trust. Why don’t they ever talk about that?

    I agree that Marty would have probably been much the same as DM. Jesse Prince says on his blog Yeager would be even worse, and Starkey too.

    Marty should be thankful for being a squirrel with some freedom, not having to tow all of Hubbard’s policies about spread, the RPF, apostates, taking on the evil psychs.

  6. Hypocrits in, hypocrits out. Out being the bigger asshole because you’re only under your own imposed veil.

  7. “Marty left because of the way the Church was treating him.” Bottom line, that is probably why we all left and not everyone leaves because of how poorly we are treated.

    If you set aside working under constant stress and duress, the rice and beans for weeks, the no personal and/or family time, no medical or dental, no $, below bare-bones living conditions, emotional abuse, and watching your friends and co-workers being slaughtered, etc. – I didn’t have it “poorly” at all.

    Inside or outside the formal COS, scientology itself is what treats people poorly.

  8. I am sure this will be censored:

    johnny d | May 6, 2011 at 4:06 pm | Reply
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    I agree with you John Williamson, it makes perfect sense to me.
    And NO I am not with OSA , jeez does everyone that has a different opinion then you folks that hang out here on Marty’s blog have to be from OSA?

  9. This post still shows up as “awaiting moderation” but a later, less contentious comment of mine was posted.

    With preceding comments for context:

    Valkov | May 5, 2011 at 10:33 pm | Reply
    Those people in the CoS who are doing or arranging the bullying aren’t Scientologists. They are fascist pretenders.

    tunedal | May 6, 2011 at 6:49 am | Reply
    My point exactly, Valkov, they are not scientologists. They pretend to be, they are members, they think they are, but they are not.

    SpecialFrog | May 6, 2011 at 4:10 pm | Reply
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Was Nancy Many a Scientologist?

    http://www.knowledgereport-themovie.com/2011/03/08/nancy-many/

    She’s described stealing personnel files for the purpose of pressuring individuals and how her unit getting their hands on Paulette Cooper’s psychiatric files, and we all know how that went down.

    It’s easy to dismiss someone’s behaviour by saying, “they aren’t a real Scientologist” but it’s a bit facile. People and their beliefs are sometimes complex.

  10. lurker(not the mostly)

    I don’t even bother posting there, but what I find funny (in a sad and ironic way) is they have turned the fair gaming of Sparrow (the kind of stuff Marty DID do and was involved in) into the beatings of David Miscavige, which marty was “forced” to do and then has blabbed all over the place about since being out… Marty has NOT spilled the beans about the fair gaming and his role in it , since he has been out….. The most he has done is post supposed documents about fair gaming Tory, which frankly could have been made up from memory….

  11. John Williamson posted on Marty’s blog to call him out on exactly what you discussed here. He was immediately a) accused by Rinder of being David Miscavige, then b) accused of being OSA. I guess Marty and Mike’s strategy is to paint anyone who doesn’t swallow Marty’s BS as being OSA.

    How long will this work?

    • lurker(not the mostly)

      It depends on who Marty is trying to impress…. His followers it works on, because they want so desperately to believe in the lie of LRH and Scientology, that Marty could take a huge steaming dump in the middle of the room call it roses and they would fall over themselves praising the smell…

      Even the exes on the ESMB and most freezoners who werent corralled into his camp, don’t really seem to swallow his BS, they seem more of the opinion that Marty is good at getting people out, and that people will fall away from him as they decompress…

      They could be right, but he is just the type of pompous windbag I enjoy watching people poke sticks at, to hear him whistle as the air comes out…
      Of course I don’t really think your ever going to get rid of Scientology as a subject, even if the COS is destroyed… there are too many suckers who aren’t willing to give up the dream..

  12. Wow. Kind of surprised this one got killed. In reference to the possibility of Moxon blowing.

    —–
    MT | May 6, 2011 at 5:00 pm | Reply
    Thank you for your work in Riverside, AO, but I won’t be rolling out the welcome wagon for Moxon if he ever chooses to blow. Separating him from the rotten inner COS core would be akin to absolving Himmler or Goebbels if either had chosen to leave the NSDAP, in my opinion.

    SpecialFrog | May 6, 2011 at 5:49 pm | Reply
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Marty and Mike were both pretty high up as well. Arguably in the “inner core”.

    As odious as Moxon’s behaviour is, he is also a victim. If he blows and is serious about wanting to make up for the damage he has done then why not give him the same chance others are being given?

    —–

    Apparently it’s not okay to compare Moxon’s dirty deeds with anything M&M might have done and expect that Moxon could be given the same chances those two have been given.

  13. I thought this was a fair question, Marty obviously did not, since he censored this comment. I suspected he would not allow it through, so I took a copy:-

    There was once a time when as an Independent or as a critic or some other perceived enemy of the church you would have been very unlucky to have had DM point M. Rathbun or M. Rinder in your direction. They were very good at their jobs.

    Marty and Mike have since left the CoS, and that is great news for everybody all round, and very bad news for DM.

    Whilst both have suffered harassment since leaving, I hope they remember/admit/apologize/make amends for how much they once enthusiastically carried out their missions, against people such as Anon Sparrow.

    I would like to ask you both if you feel the harassment you have received since leaving is less than, equal to, or greater than the sum total of misery you inflicted at the direction of DM.

    There are a lot of people thinking this same question, and I think it’s a valid and fair one to ask.

  14. Whether it is Martyology, or other FZ form of the cult, a few positive disadvantages they have:
    1. Can’t draw raw meat in.
    2. No way of really retaining members.

    There’s no sales force to call these people, forcing them into additional courses, warning of the dire consequences of dropping off the bridge, losing their gains, or their eternity.

    Any non-Scilon reading Marty’s blog, it would be like a big red flag not to get involved in a paranoid, nutty cult. Of course, Marty etc. think any criticism is OSA or working for DM, because it is the framework of paranoia they learned from Hubbard’s thinking and system.

    The degree of damage and pain M&M caused others, is proportionate to their effort to ignore the obvious, that the system was very faulty.

    As Caliwog wrote, Marty would have been as bad as DM, and there are several DMs or worse waiting to take his place. That’s the system Hubbard created.

  15. “That’s the system Hubbard created.”

    Amen.

  16. Aaron saxton

    Interesting.

    As one as one may not like to interpret it – Marty is factually a victim in terms of harrassment he receives from the Church. He is also a victim in what he became through them. I don’t think Marty would have become such a bad person in many people’s lives if he had not been in Scientology – and ultimately the Sea Org.

    The Sea Org not been vicious since Marty left? I have to disagree. I had four matters taken to the police in my respect after I launched into them. the reason why they did not attack Marty like this is purely because he has not actually released any details that are worth anything. I released some very specific details, times, places, names and events.

    I can assure anyone out there, that having four matters before the courts is no fun – especially when you were promised protection from an Australian Senator who then backed down.

    Marty can not be defended for his actions – and his lack of responsibility for those actions is somewhat breathtaking in terms of professing to be standing for something greater. Then again, will you go to jail for what you know about what happened in there and your involvement – very few would – and to date, no one has been willing to be prosecuted for their involvement. I dislike Marty with a passion, but I would not expect him to confess to the detriment of his going to jail, seriously.

  17. Lure Rob & Hide

    What happened to the witness protection program ? Marty could do that but then he would have to give up his favorite pastime praticing Elron’s black magik rituals and getting well paid from suckers who come for a ‘seance” then pay X amount of $ per spirit they conjure up.
    What a con job !!!! and there are still suckers but those are getting fewer too.

  18. William Johnson

    TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY!!! Marty’s latest blog entry is about OSA and all the evil tactics they use on us SP’s!!! Marty should be ashamed to post something like that, he is likely the author of most of those tactics, and definitely used them on people all over the world! The brainwash of $cientology is complete, and now he is trying to sell the same BS with Martyology!

  19. Aaron saxton

    There also appears to be a confusion with Marty – and I must say – others interpretation of a Dead Agent.

    I alluded to the OSA Network Orders and various other confidential CBOs etc. from Ron about what Dead Agents really are.

    Typically, it is interpreted as an action taken against someone to make their opinions , comments & information meaningless. It is also a term used to describe a person who has been effectively “deadened” through the agent (being the black PR).

    However, this is the definition Marty and others (such as the Church) would have you believe are acceptable. But this is not complete by a long shot.

    A Dead Agent as meant in the purest sense of the term in Rons advices is factually a person who is referred to as a Dead Agent. Typically, a person ends up working for the Church without actually being aware they are working for the Church – thus they are the perfect PI or infiltrator the Church needs.

    Commonly the church activates Dead Agents through various means – see below – and you will see examples of such. Right now, Marty is a Dead Agent and he does not even know it – and he is doing a fantastic job and DM would not dream of taking him to court or shutting down his blog.

    Now, here are the examples I am speaking of:

    1. Disaffected Family Member. By having just one member of a family disaffected with Mgmt, it becomes a great asset to the Church. The person will typically recruit others towards their ideas. Rather than order a disconnect from the person by the remainder of his Scn family, the Church “recruits” family members to “help” their fellow family member through good roads and fair weather. The disaffected person may still be on Org lines – he is kept that way. The value of the person doing this is that they root out the weeds on org lines, and through KRs written by other family members about who they are speaking to, effectively provides the Church with the names they could not come up with by any other means. This is an example of a light Dead Agent – the family members think they are helping their spouse, son, father etc. get “ethics handled” but are in actual fact assisting the Church to find it’s enemies.

    Another form is the Media loudmouth. Here we have the Church combating a media outlet or a person who was/is a Scientologist who is flapping their mouth off. Rather than shut him or her down, the Church lets them be. The result of monitoring their internet traffic without them knowing it – and their phone lines again results in a general roundup of the Church’s enemies. Often these people think they are gaining momentum against the Church, when in fact they are herding up the enemies more a mass slaughter. Again, the person is unaware they are in fact assisting the Church.

    A more lethal form of the Dead Agent is a bit more risky, but the payoff is huge. Here, the Church will actively assist through covert means via finding and support – even to the extend of lobbying or sacraficing a few of it’s good members to allow a group to gain such momentum that they are seen as a real threat to the Church. This was the result with C.A.N. which received funding from The C of S without them ever knowing it. C.A.N. got very good and ended up having what they thought was a virtual strangle hold on the C of S. Eventually they fell as planned and all the files of the Churches unknown enemies fell into the lap of the C of S.

    Now for Marty’s type. Here we have the highest risk form of Dead Agent that exists. We take an executive with clout and we turn him loose – but not before he is disaffected – and the perosn must be truely disaffected. There are indicators in the PC files etc. They are put through a series of steps to ensure that they will leave and when they do, they will turn. Once this has been accomplished the persons communication lines are infiltrated and steps are taken to make it appear that those communication lines have been hacked. the individual then asserts they are secure and they end up rounding up the most dangerous threats to the Church – those that know their operations. Inevitebly, the individual ends up in communication with the most serious threats, and theough skip tracing and hop scotching through computer networks, emails and IP addresses are then found that lead to the people they most want to know their wherebouts. This is Marty. And there have been many before him. What he thinks he is doing is starting a revolution when in fact he is collecting the Churches trash and making it easy to identify it – because if the Church knew how these people really felt before, they would have been declared – and if they slowly came about to Marty’s thinking, then they were threats waiting to happen anyways. This is the Churches favorite true Dead Agent and the most prized.

    Marty gets a Gold Star. And DM played him beautifully. Better still about this is that DM had someone else play Marty – Marty blames DM, but who really did the ethics number on Marty? (Marty thinking the guy was made to treat him like that because “DM ordered it so”) Wilhere? Some other guy? Somebody Marty would not THINK was bad…but they were. You would think Mike and Marty would have seen this coming but that is the beauty of a Dead Agent – they simply do not know what they are there for or that they are being used.

    Big round of applause Marty, keep up the good work – DM & Co (and I seriously do mean “Co” there are others playing with DM on this stuff – and the fact that Marty would have you think DM controls the whole lot is sheer proof in itself) has needed someone like you for a long time because the last ones were all used up.

    If Marty is going to lecture about a DA, he better get familiar with what one really is. It is a person. The verb use is for the people who have not had access to Rons other materials and know what a real DA is.

    The question then becomes how many people, blogs and forums are actual Dead Agent sites – they are not even aware of?

    Everyone thinks that no one reads their mail, no one calls up to get copies of phone bills etc. – well that is simply not true. DM has had his goons in various ISPs and government offices for years, surely some of the jumps DM has had on Marty and Mikes location has alluded to them that they must have had foreknowledge – surely the ethics actions taken on some “just” before they “went” to Marty would have alluded Marty and Mike to the fact the C of S knew already who they were in touch with…but no…

    Lastly, the C of S employs people that are not PIs but pure goons to facilitate the transition of a person from disaffected to becoming a Dead Agent. It may be a comment at a bar, a conversation on a bus…but the last person who sees it is the Dead Agent himself.

    And Marty sees all, right? (And talks to dolphins).

    • lurker(not the mostly)

      thats really interesting Aaron, this kind of sick manipulation even of the dissafected explains why exes are so paranoid…. It seems they have reason to be… of course the sheer numbers of dissafected these days makes it harder for the COS to decide who to target.. I would think, that the real danger are to the people “still in” but dissafected, or out, but not advertising it for various reasons…

  20. I was very frustrated at my need to to cut off people from Facebook, email, the youtube video etc. but I was aware that there was a security breach on my email and other devices – now I stay in touch with no one at all other than family and close friends I have known for a very long time – and no one at all who was ever in Scientology.

    Until laws are passed that actually for forbid persecution and intimidation – and also pass laws giving police extra powers to investigate to prevent) in Oceania, it is near impossible to speak out without being penalized.

    I mean, they would have to literally kill someone to get police involvement even interested and that is very sad as there are hundreds of people who will not go to media, speak out or do things because the Church gets away with their tactics.

    In Australia, despite a Senator promising protection, look at what happened to a handful of people there – court tactics, PIs, being followed by unknown persons – it really is a sham that going public will be the best way to have Scientology pull back and leave you alone.

  21. Mike | May 10, 2011 at 6:32 pm | Reply
    I am new here so please understand. The COS did all this damaging and stalking stuff long before DM was in charge, right? This behaviour does not seem new to folks like Mrs. Cooper.

    RJ | May 10, 2011 at 7:54 pm | Reply
    Wrong!

    Cooper was an aberration.

    If that is the only one that you can come up and can’t see the difference between then and now then it is obvious to me that you are merely a troll.

    Mike | May 11, 2011 at 2:42 pm | Reply
    I dont know what a troll is because I am an interested WOG, or what ever the bad name is for a non-scientologist. If, as you say, Cooper was an aberation, does that mean her stalking did not happen? What about the harrassment my sister went through in 1985? Was that also an abberation? What about others who left COS before DM came to power? As a Catholic, I understand how painfull the truth can be.

    • From prior experience talking with him, RJ believes most of the Hubbard conspiracy theories so Scientology actions at that stage were self defense against the nefarious psychiatry/interpol/world bank scheme.

      This includes the infiltration of government agencies.

      It’s interesting that he acknowledges that Paulette Cooper happened and wasn’t excusable as “self-defense”.

    • Continued conversation with RJ – I like how he knows I’m “really” David Miscavige!

      RJ | May 11, 2011 at 7:32 pm | Reply

      Dave,

      A “troll” is someone who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

      aberration |ˌabəˈrā sh ən|
      noun
      a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome : they described the outbreak of violence in the area as an aberration.
      • a person whose beliefs or behavior are unusual or unacceptable : evil men are an aberration.
      • a departure from someone’s usual moral character or mental ability, typically for the worse : I see these activities as some kind of mental aberration.
      • Biology a characteristic that deviates from the normal type : color aberrations.
      • Optics the failure of rays to converge at one focus because of limitations or defects in a lens or mirror.
      • Astronomy the apparent displacement of a celestial object from its true position, caused by the relative motion of the observer and the object.

      The first two definitions of aberration would apply in Paulette Cooper’s case since it wasn’t standard practice for the GO to harass individuals but to break into Government offices and photocopy sensitive documents that the Government had been withholding despite FOIA requests.

      In other words their main target was oppressive and fascistic Governments whose apparent objective was to destroy Scientology.

      The lesser of two evils as far as I’m concerned.

      Yet is considered “espionage”.

      Harassment of individuals such as critics of Scientology in particular management and especially David Miscavige began in earnest in the mid ’80′s when the “GO” was allegedly “disbanded” and the “Office of Special Affairs” or OSA took over and accelerated when our former enemy (the Government) became our “friends” according to Miscavige.

      So your sister was harassed in that transitional period I refer to as “the coup”.

      Also you seem to claim you know the “truth” but it is obvious that you know little about it since as I had written earlier then is not the same as *now*.

      And there are many Scientologists who are currently commenting on this board who will attest to this fact.

      Another thing asking what you think is a “rhetorical question” which is really your assertion is not going to gain you any kudos over here.

      Neither is forcing others here to accept your version of the “truth”.

      Mike | May 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm | Reply RJ – You are right, I am a troll because I do intentionally say things that I feel will start an argument about subjects I am interested in. If this offends, then I will ask Marty to remove my comments. For the past year, he seems more than willing to allow opposing views on his blog.

      You have your experiences that are true for you and so do I. Even if what my sister went through is an abberation by past standards, it seems to conform with what many who have left recently have also experienced. If what my sister went through in the past is similiar to what the indys have to deal with today, what, in my mind, has really changed? It is true that Fair game and dis-connection pre-date DM, this is true. Everyone knows it, its not even taboo anymore. You may never understand what its like to be on the outside watching your family member throw you away like a piece of trash, but I do. Strange as it may sound, I am just as hurt by how COS treated my sister when she freed her mind as I was at her for tossing us in the dumpster. The pain she felt while being stalked, threatened and dead-agented forced her to experience the truth about her Church. She did not want that experience. Now, I see some of the folks that were in the COS back then have left the Church and are themselfs being harrassed. I confess to feeling conflicted about this. Part of me says, you deserve it for being part of on organization that hurt my family so much. Another part of me says that you are doing the right thing for leaving the organization that hurt my family so much. This is a common theme I’ve experienced from hardcore scino’s, they are of unaware how much pain the COS has inflicted on the family members of members.

      You will always know more about the tech than me. You will always know more about cos than me. But you will never know more truth than me, nor will I ever know more truth than you.

      David Miscavige, COB

    • >Wrong! Cooper was an aberration.

      OMFG. How do you even have a conversation with ignorance like this???

      ML,
      Caliwog

  22. lurker(not the mostly)

    She wasnt an abberattion, she was the template for which they targeted others..

  23. Cooper was hardly an abberation.

    There were hundreds of people silenced like this. Paulette’s is well spoken off because it was the one that tied in with Operation Snow White and the government itself obtained evidence.

    Do research and you will find many many such operations like Paulette’s that were extremely successful. I could throw you a dozen names to start off with but why bother? Find out yourself 🙂

    It started back in the mid 50’s.

    And as for operation Snow White, that had nothing to do with taming the government but everything to do with obtaining leverage to get their ends met. That program never stopped and was still going when I left – but under a different name.

    Scientologists by and large are like mushrooms and kept in the dark and fed S**t.

    I was 100% a Scientologist, a Messenger and very hard-core about getting Scientology out there – more than any other Scientologist I know.

    But you know what? Facts just don’t lie, and when you investigate the past and see the gigantic lies told by the C of S and especially it’s founder – there is no doubt the intent behind it. Deception.

    And the deception keeps on coming and Scientologists keep on accepting it. Whatever justification they have for thinking it is Ok, it is just that – a justification. And pathetic.

    I doubt there is a single Scienotlogist that visits this board that can stand up to a real Q & A on L. Ron Hubbard. I knew the man better than most through his policies only given to the Sea Org and then sometimes only certain Sea Org members.

    But hey, whatever…

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