Ex/Anti-Scientologists vs. Independent Scientologists

Recently, Emma announced that she was going to stop running the Ex Scientologist Message Board and get out of the Scientology protest racket. Here’s a sampling of how her readers reacted:

“Good for you, Emma.”

“Bon voyage and thanks for the memories! … I for one will never consider you a sellout, liar, OSA, bitch, or any of that other stuff — you’re simply a human being who did a fine thing in making this meeting place possible for all the rest of us, and we thank you.”

“Thanks Emma, and goodbye. It’s been great. Will miss you and ESMB.”

“My heart sunk when I read your post, but I totally get it. ESMB has served an amazing role in helping people. You did a wonderful thing and devoted many years to making sure it was a safe haven… It was a great gift to so many. Thank you Emma, for helping me heal. Now it’s time for you to spread your wings and live free of your past. Godspeed!”

“I can’t even begin to properly exress my gratitude to you for putting this board here and keeping it here through all the crap that you have to deal with!”

“Time for a peaceful, loving life now, Emma…..filled with lots of fun for you and your family. If anyone deserves it, you do.”

Now, here is a sampling of how Marty’s Independent Scientologists reacted to the news that Debbie Cook agreed to walk away from protesting in exchange for the Church dropping their lawsuit:

“Shame on them. They got bought again. And they allow it to continue. That’s ‘Personal Integrity’?”

“There is no way Debbie or Wayne would have signed this document unless there was a HUGE amount of money involved. What a crock!”

“Well shame on them. They made another deal with the devil.”

“Shame on her. She took money knowing what the donors expected of her and it was far far from what she delivered.”

“Debbie let us down. She did not have the guts in the end. She let herself silenced? She must be very PTS…still.”

“Betrayl after trust? After the money and support that was flowed to Debbie and Wayne… pitiful.”

“The likely possibility that the she got bought off doesn’t surprise me. Perhaps she should be renamed ‘Debbie Crook’…She was a sell-out and has now committed herself as a sell-out for the rest of her life.”

“She has effectively pissed on and off anyone who has ever called themselves a Scientologist.”

I hate to advance Scientology’s “us vs. them” mentality, but today I am proud to say that I am one of us, and not one of them.


14 responses to “Ex/Anti-Scientologists vs. Independent Scientologists

  1. Very perceptive and observant, Cali.

    Seems to me that the ex’s place the highest value on a person’s individual rights and freedom to choose what to do with their lives, whereas the Independents value the group above the individual. Interesting.

  2. Greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, don’t ya know.

  3. Debbie and Wayne did not sell out.

    They both have an absolute right to take the Church to court and receive compensation – and how dare Marty imply otherwise. any settlement with the church of Scientology is going to include a clause for silence or at leats to relent attacking them.

    Did Marty not support this all along with others who went after the church?

    It is quite easy for a man like Marty to point the finger when his entire life is funded by people who through money at him to live the life he has – what would he actually know about living in the real world?

    And more to the point, what right does anyone have to enforce Debbie or Wayne “fight the church”.

    Marty seems to have forgotten what the definition of freedom of choice is – and likes to enforce his own moral code on others.

    When will Marty get it through his head that Scientology is just a book or an idea, and that it is about people who do things to other people. I guess he would not like that understood because it would mean if he felt discomfort for what happened, he should sue the individuals involved – which means others should probably sue him for the wicked things he did to them.

    Marty seems to get fucked over constantly – despite reading Science of Survival he just never seems to be able to pick out those around him with other intentions. Marty has per his own record, been fucked for decades. This is your leader of a new Scientology movement? He seems as insightful and perceptive as all the previous ones. LOL.

    The only cowards around here are the ones that spend hundreds of hours in a free world trying to figure out how to justify LRHs past and push it onto others with the lies involved, and ignore the truth.

    Honestly, a fraction of the people in the Sea Org spend time actually making up the lies, and the rest just think it is true. Out here where we can all see LRH with no clothes on, we know the truth, and people like Marty spend more time hiding the truth about LRH and painting bullshit for ex-Scios to think LRH is actually some kind of hero.

    Marty is more dangerous if there were 1,000 people like him out here than the Sea Org combined. Marty is nothing more than a Parole officer for people outside the Sea Org and Scientology standard lines, ensuring they do not stray far from “the word”.

    Marty is the ultimate Dead Agent as described by LRH, working for the Sea Org and Scientology without even knowing it – and thinking he is fighting them. LRH envisioned such a tool as given in OSA Orders & the DA Series, and Marty is being constantly utilized – and he doesn’t even know it.

    ESMB as created by Emma is nothing more than a mental facility housing all the nutjobs – proclaiming to be a place where people can get help – yet actively supports the destruction of critics with critical thinking and supports weirdos like Terril who spew out LRH’s message without consequence.

    Do you know what you call a mental clinic without any counsellors? A group of nuts whose “help” results in more confusion – a group of vicitims where the therapists have been banned is not a place for help – it is a place to have your fears and confusion enforced. There are good therapists out there that will not go to ESMB and HELP these people because the moderators in effect, do not like them – yet claim it is a place for help.

    You don’t take gamblers to a casino for help – unless your an ESMBer and think like that. Most of the clear headed people on ESMB have been removed, leaving those that will pat you on the back and let you know your free to love Scientology and LRH – another OSA victory.

    ESMB is not an Ex-Scientology Message Board, it is an Ex-Scientology Membership Message Board that is pro LRH.

    If the Moderators really understood what Scientology was, then they would get the supporters – who have been “out” for decades and have had “time” to “figure it out” off the message board – all they do is enforce LRH system beliefs and fight and gang up on the smart ones and kick them off.

    Honestly, I heard that whack job who used to be the Course Sup at ITO is going to be a moderator. the GUY THINKS HE INVENTED A FOOD REPLICATOR MACHINE – for gods sake, the guy is a fucking nut job – AND HE IS SUITABLE??????

    Emma should fuck off – her thinking is as clear as a muddy pool. The people she had left are pro-Scientology thinkers. ESMB should have an active membership in the thousands, with smart intelligent people, therapists, threads showing the proof of debunking LRH with scientific fact – but it has none of those – it is a website where critical thinking is thrown out the window and where “belief” rules supreme by a bunch of uneducated morons – no one takes ESMB seriously, though many wogs who have something powerful to add and help others with have tried – and all been kicked off.

    So you tell me what ESMB is really for then? Seems like the Scios house down the road from the HGB where you can hang out until you get the balls to go into the real world, or bow down and accept that LRH is real and true and accept your fate as a degraded being.

    • johnny d / thetan-x

      No Shit Aaron, a “Food Replicator Machine” ?? that fucking rocks where do i get one ? just think, i’ll never have to cook again !!!!

  4. Aaron…consider the possibility that other people are not like you. Just saying’…

  5. Aaron,

    I have respected, enjoyed and even complimented you on your sincere, educated posts you have written. As a Scio critic, I lurk on all the sites that I can, ESMB being one of them. This post seems trollish to me. ESMB has some moonbats on it for sure, but if it helps anyone to pull themselves out of the Hubtard mind fuck 1/4 of an inch, than it has value IMHO. Terril is a great example of moonbat.



  6. I glad to hear your words Aaron. Don’t ever stop talking.

  7. Kevin Stevenson

    I got to think about this sinking ship and the Captain of it, once.

    I am finished with it.

    Worst case scenario was that the “Debbie Crook” (what is wrong with the mentality of these autistic punning idiots) may have succeeded in bringing down a cult to have another one rise from it’s ashes, as Catholicism survived, make the wrongness acceptable and grow.
    A bogus untested unlicensed mishmash of a psychotherapy that descended into the insanity of it’s Sci-fi authors delusions, which reduces all religion and Science to nonsense “Jesus Christ was a “lover of young boys and men”, Mohammed was a “small town booster” who invented Islam to improve his business. “Einstein was wrong” and… ” I saw a spaceship fully armed”.
    A fucking delusional cult making control freak and madman, coward and fucking liar who hadn’t the balls to go to prison for his crimes, instead using his wife, while hiding with Llamas at “X” location and then spewing out shit Jazz and Sci-fi turkeys like “Battlefield Earth”.
    And in response now to this, the wonderful “Rawn, biography series”. Lots of “Promo” on that junk. I’d rather read Bambi’s biography.
    Fuck him, the fucking Nazi. I am not interested in a Independent Nazi Organization.
    ANYTHING this fat lying prick incorporated into his psychotic cult of ANY use, was of use before and he tried to copyright it an profit from it. Talking to people. That’s good and always has been. “Two-way Comm.” copyright L. Ron Hubbard’s cult. Go fuck yourselves. Any benefit IN Scientology is actually OUTSIDE of it and preexisted it.
    Indie Movement is a revisionist Cult. Try and take the “bad” out of the septic tank, even the floaters – still his shit. No. Just go before it and talk, and care and don’t profit from another’s pain. No money matters. Just people and what matters to them.
    It’s been rotten from the start.

    Kevin Stevenson

    • well, you are stlll sub consciously following them. You deserted your wife after all. You took the money and disappeared. Be betther than them before it is too late and all you get enrolled are court case where you will lose one after the other. A new court case is being filed by me now

  8. At least most of Emma’s readers know that Scientology is not going to save the planet, whereas Marty’s group is confused about that.

    As far as most ESMBers needing a therapist (as Aaron wrote)… I think some of them do well communicating with each other and that’s something they were not allowed to do in COS. Some people may need to do that, communicate with someone else who left CoS, before they even realize they need a therapist.

  9. Through Emma and ESMB, I’ve made lifetime friends and regained some of my old ones – ALL completely out of Scn. Also through those I’ve connected with on ESMB, I’ve been involved with some seriously effective media and damage against the cult, and still am. What goes on behind the scenes at ESMB is similar to what goes on behind the scenes of WWP. Aaron, you did some real damage. Regardless of any disagreements you and I have had (and still do), I will always be grateful to you for what you’ve done. I hope you never stop speaking out and I hope that someday soon you again make use of your remarkable speaking talents.

  10. I’m not so sure I agree with you on the validity of your comparison Cali.

    Firstly, you’re comparing someone who has wisely decided to move on with their life against someone who has (whichever way you look at it) given up their right to free speech.

    Secondly, take a look at the initial comments placed on the Village Voice website when the Debbie Cook story broke – they were very critical of Debbie Cook.

    I think the honest assessment of the Debbie Cook situation is that everyone was somewhat disappointed in the eventual outcome. Yes, most people I think would want to see Debbie and her husband happy and getting on with their lives, however if we are all honest we would have loved to have seen the dispute play out in the courts, with the delicious possibility of one David Miscavige being called to appear.

    I think what IS interesting is that where Tony Ortega sought to calm down the anger towards Debbie Cook from the critics on his forum by trying to establish the truth of the settlement, Marty Rathbun was so angry he made seemingly baseless allegations of backhanded financial settlements against Debbie and her husband.

  11. Secondly, I wondered if you had picked up on some of the intriguing comments Marty made with regards to dirt he thought the CoS might hurl his way, and vice versa. The paragraph I’m referring to is below – he seems to be getting an excuse in early, and threatens Miscavige to steer away from it. I wonder what he’s worried about? Any suggestions? And what juicy details does he have that he says requires his “discretion”? And why does he have such an obligation of discretion? Since when has he been discreet about any bad behavior on the part of the CoS?

    Marty has often defended himself against the argument that he knows more than he is revealing, which he constantly denies. But here is an example where he is stating exactly that! This seems to me at least, to support the theory that Rathbun and Miscavige are playing a game of Mutually Assured Destruction in terms of what they know of each other.

    “Just before I took my leave I informed the defendants and their counsel that in order for settlement to be effectuated Miscavige absolutely would demand a pound of my own flesh in the form of statements from the defendents that he would consider harmful to me. I told them, and Mike Rinder agreed as it might apply to him, that there would be no hard feelings if they simply told Miscavige everything they know about us – just the facts. We have nothing to hide, and only look upon our relationship with Debbie and Wayne as an experience of giving help with no expectation of return. Knowing the history of Miscavige directed Scientology Inc settlements over three decades, I am confident that some exaggeration and manufacturing of fact may have been required. I’m mentioning it in the event the truth wasn’t good enough and you wind up reading something about us from that sector that is less than admirable; you will know the circumstances from which it originates.

    I have certain obligations of discretion given my role on the legal team. However, I am letting David Miscavige know right here and now that should the slightest twist of truth be published and attributed to the defendants, the gloves will come off – and I will fill the world in on the details of what really went down in technicolor.”

  12. Sharan Stevenson

    I wish to retract what i said as it is untrue and meant to just hurt him. Kevin is one of the most polite and sincere person. To lash out at him in angry, i put the post up. Please help me to remove the post. Thank you

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