Is Marty Rathbun losing his faith?

Some strange goings-on at Marty Rathbun’s web site this past few weeks!

In a recent post, Scientology Inc “Justice”, Marty quoted an LRH rant against the FBI, prefacing it with this:

“Irrespective of how exaggerated his rancor might have been about the target of his wrath…”

That may sound perfectly rational, unless you know about Scientology — in which case you know that’s like a devout Christian calling Jesus “a lover of young men and boys.”

Add that on to the strange February 22nd radio interview (the one I keep promising to write more about, but keep not getting around to) in which Marty said that the OT3 story wasn’t to be taken literally, and I have to start wondering: What’s in the water down there in Texas?

Understand that 100% allegiance and adherence to L. Ron Hubbard and his “tech” are paramount to being a Scientologist. If you don’t buy into all of the bullshit, the scam doesn’t work.

Needless to say, Marty’s heretical words aren’t sitting well with all of his flock. A couple of sample comments:

“Exaggerated? Exaggerated rancor? I disagree, utterly. I think LRH was not reasonable [Scn. definition: Finding reasons to let bad behavior continue] with Suppressives…I would expect that more people would be interested in discussing the Global Sit[uation] and objectively whether LRH did exaggerate about FBI’s intentions and activities, which Marty posted as “exaggerated rancor” which I think he should revoke.”

“Was LRH’s “rancor exaggerated”? Google FBI’s “cointelpro”. 85% of cointelpro budget used to investigate suspected communists, civil rights leaders, Vietnam war protesters etc. and 15% of budget to investigate Ku Klux Klan hate crimes.”

(Marty posted an update as a result, but good for him, he didn’t backpedal.)

Still others took the role of LRH apologist, basically saying “It’s okay if LRH was full of shit, because his work is still good.” This is the line Marty usually takes. Again, some sample commentary:

“There is lots to reject about the man as a husband, a father, the Founder etc. and I don’t mind discussing the negative as a matter of course, but in the end, not one person has delivered anything close to what he created. So all else pales in comparison.”

“…the nit-picking over LRH is simply reactive mind. … one (not one) has anything even remotely resembling a better solution than Scn.”

My favorite was this justification of the Scientology infiltration of the government, when they were caught breaking in and stealing files:

“I see it as a group of OT’s vs real enemies in the government.”

BUT – it’s also bringing out some of the doubting Thomases of the Indie set, many of whom are raising their own doubts about LRH’s credibility:

“…according to my observations and experience going back to the 70′s, most of the Ron letters* were fake. Signed either by a machine or someone trained in his signature. It was a big fat lie.”

* Ron’s Standing Order #1 was that anyone could write to him, and he would write back. Thousands of Scientologists have “Ron letters” among their treasured possesions.

“…Also, around 1974 I wrote a letter and the response came back the next day. I asked the Sea Org Missionaire and the LRH Comm who handed me ‘Ron’s’ letter if they knew where LRH was and they replied they thought he was in Ireland or some such place. I watched the LRH Com’s eyes twitch as I said, “Hmmm, pretty good. I sent the letter yesterday. It went to LRH in Ireland six thousand miles away and he answered it and it was transported all the way back to me. In just a day. Wow. That’s speed of particle flow. I thought maybe it was some highly advanced secret transportation device they were using in order to magically make this happen. Or maybe OT powers!!”

And then there’s this one, which miraculously made it through the Marty censor:

” [quoted from another comment] >>the fact that thousands (conservative estimate) of people have gotten gains from auditing, and at present ,people still do get gains from auditing, is simply an unintended byproduct of his true intentions.<<

…or that auditing “tech” wasn’t original to Hubbard.

And here’s a really odd one. One commenter wrote:

“LRH had to use a toilet just like the rest of us. This is because he had a body, just like the rest of us. He got angry and irrational at times, just like the rest of us. He probably went out-ethics sometimes, just like the rest of us…” (there’s more)

And Marty’s reply:

“If one is capable of parking his or her reason at the door for L Ron Hubbard he or she is capable of parking it for David Miscavige. In fact, if it were not for the proclivity toward the former phenomenon the latter phenomenon never would have materialized…”

Wait a minute – am I reading this wrong, or is Marty saying that following LRH unquestioningly is the same as following the current Church unquestioningly?

What on Teegeack is going on here?

Two possibilities: One, Marty is a secret agent of the Church, trying to blow his own Independent movement out of the water by proving to die-hard Church-goers that his group is an anti-LRH squirrel group, therefore driving true Scientologist back into the arms of the Church where they can get “pure tech.”

Two: Marty is slowly beginning to see the light through the cracks.

I’m pretty sure it’s not the former, and boy oh boy, do I hope it’s the latter. Now, I don’t expect Marty to renounce Scientology any time soon. After all, he’s been “in” for decades, and besides, it’s paying his rent. But it appears he acknowledges that there are holes in LRH’s “tech” (not to mention his claims about his life and accomplishments) that cannot be rationally explained.

If Marty truly sees the light – if he realizes that this so-called “religion” is a scam, not just one perpetrated by David Miscavige, but one perpetrated by L. Ron Hubbard – it’s possible that we could see the end of the money-grubbing, life-destroying, family-rending, tax-evading con job that is Scientology.

I, for one, am holding out hope.


12 responses to “Is Marty Rathbun losing his faith?

  1. I think he has no choice but to test the waters and see how his flock reacts. Between two hard rocks.

  2. “Two: Marty is slowly beginning to see the light through the cracks. I’m pretty sure it’s not the former, and boy oh boy, do I hope it’s the latter.”

    Me too, brother, me too. I hope this for everyone who leaves the cult – deeply and personally.

    Marty’s actions to expose abuses and corruption by the CoS and it’s current leader Miscavige are worth supporting – while, at the same time, calling BS on behaviors that smack of same sh*t different day.

    • Love that last paragraph, Marta… wise words. Except I fear Marty won’t expose the abuses that are bad for him, like the “Church”‘s tax exemption…

      ML, CW

      • I suspect the same, Cali…and still hope otherwise. With so many doing whatever they can in large and small ways to expose ALL of the abuses, perhaps Marty will come along – or be left with a dinosaur of his own :o)

  3. (Preface,) I’m not a big fan of Marty Rathbun. However; asking someone to do a complete 180 on their beliefs is not reasonable. Marty was chief enforcer to Scientology and world within the groups doctrine for decades. I’m a bit appalled that instead of moving on with his life he’s chosen to try and carve out a little Scientology for himself. But that’s his choice. So long as he does not approve of or endorse the more idiotic “sacraments” in Scientology, I really don’t care. Adults have a privilege to be nitwits and if people want to pay Marty for auditing or whatever, I have no bones about it other than suggesting Marty go out and get a two year professorial counselling licence. he won’t do that because “it’s psychology!” To which I reply, “so is Scientology except Hubbard’s didn’t bother to get it peer reviewed..”

    If he DID go out and get the sheepskin, I’d have a modicum of respect for what he’s doing.

  4. If I may offer an expression I have used a thousand times before but never meant more than right now.

    Fuck Marty.

  5. I guess that is simpler, Marty’s just not my type though.

  6. Marty is sounding a bit like a Leninist in that last statement. While most Leninists will argue that Lenin was well-intentioned they will concede that he created an environment in which Stalin was able to thrive.

    Hopefully this puts Marty closer to a rejection of Admin Tech (which he has always seemed a bit wishy-washy about). I think once someone rejects Admin Tech more will follow.

  7. Genetic Entity

    I think Marty is becoming a text-book ‘squirrel’. To be a Scientologist, one must accept all the Hubbard said was true and workable. He’s doubting his master, acknowledging his flaws, and picking and choosing which ‘tech’ he wants to apply. Definately sounds like he’s breaking a little free from Hubbard’s bullshit. He’s probably dropping most of the admin tech and sticking with his bread and butter, auditing.

  8. There is a 3rd possibility Caliwog, and its a possibility I’ve considered for some time, which is that Marty knows what kind of person Hubbard was and has done for some time, but can only drip feed his fragile indies one revelation at a time.

    Could it possibly be that Marty has taken a long view of how to destroy Miscavige, which requires him staying involved with the “technology”?


    The secret most un-exposed about Scientology is that is it an “applied physiological philosophy” rather than an “applied religious philosophy”. All Scientology courses, all auditing processes, and all the management and professional courses are based on physiological phenomenas, psychophysiology, emotions, human behavior patterns that are our birth right and used and claimed in Scientology as their own discoveries. Even their PTS-SP data is based upon how a “Symptom” re-stimulation is brought out by physiological reactions of the mind affecting the body when under stress. They blame innocent human beings called by them “suppressive persons” for bringing out a symptom that was there to warn you of hidden real illnesses caused by non-suppressive sources such as parasites, chemicals, poisons, toxins, nutritional deficiencies, over acidity, viruses and bacteria. The data on PTS-SP is twisted by them to blame innocent people in order to keep their members in line under total control.

    The only way to fight them is to expose to the world–how Scientology has used physiological phenomenas as the basis for a false and fraudulent religion, and how it has harmed thousands of families by claiming that innocent mothers and fathers are SPs — when they lied about symptom re-stimulations to the world.

    No where in Scientology will you find courses on any bible, there is no study or belief in heaven, hell, saints, angels, the devil, or even God himself. They do not study religion or even believe in religions. They do not share common values with any other religion. Their goal is to eliminate all other religions. These are facts exposed by hundreds of Ex-Scientologists that disconnected.

    The E-meter reads your physiological reactions, the Ronbots never calls it that—they call it the “CHARGE” or the “MASS” or “ENGRAMS” OR “MENTAL IMAGE PICTURES” that you have in your brain—all meant to distract you from the truth.

    Know this fact — There is a law of Nature or law of God called “Physiological Reactions” which has its basis under the law of “Cause and Effect”, that is the true secret behind Scientology’s Dianetics study technology.

    AUDITING ERASES AND LESSONS YOUR PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTIONS!!! Once they are gone – your symptoms can’t be re-stimulated by stress or arguments. This is NOT a good thing, because ALL doctors depend on symptoms to guide them in treating you! This is why they prohibit you from seeing the doctors of your choice!!! Understand now how the scam works? Now when you argue with your mother and don’t get restimulated – you think she was the cause of all your illnesses.

    If you were audited a hundred times (repeated) for a word that caused you a re-stimulation of a symptom of an underlining illness, and then made to read a page that contained that word—it would never again read on the Emeter or cause a physiological reaction. They now have erased the sign that a real illness is still there.

    LRH discovered that when you passed a misunderstood word—you manifested many physiological reactions of various types: Yawning, sleepiness, not there feeling, dizziness, blurry eyes, nervousness and dozens more. You can do the same by totally clearing a word and the physiological reaction does not manifest again.

    Being the liar that he was, he claimed that physiological reactions which he now calls “Dianetics” was “‘his” invention and not a law of God; he hid the fact that it is our human inheritance since time began.

    Granted that his power of obnosis (“observing the obvious” total observation) was the best in the world, his crime against humanity was to make a “religion” based upon the falsehood, that it was his invention or creation and not a law of God belonging to all Humanity as their lawful right.

    For proof that the Cult has lied to you: — Google “L. Ron Hubbard or Scientology and Physiological Reactions” or visit their own Godless websites: or

    LRH used God’s Natural laws to make slaves of mankind!

    “So long as a physiological phenomenon remains the knowledge of a few and is denied to the many it can be utilized to control the many.” LRH (from Journal of Scientology Issue 4-G from Oct. 1952) —– IN THIS FILE YOU WILL FIND ALL THE EVIDENCE TO EXPOSE THE CULT’S CRIMES ONCE AND FOR ALL TIMES.

    [This quote was taken from a letter placed online from the cult leader, telling his staff that the secret of physiological reactions is the most guarded secret that must never be exposed or admitted.]
    In the PTS SP course the Ethics officer will declare you as PTS if you get sick in any way. He/she will make you answer to see who you were with in the past 72 hours. He will question you until you volunteered the name of a person you argued with or fought with, who insulted you, hit you or scolded you. That person will be forever listed or declared as your SUPPRESSIVE PERSON.

    In Scientology all illnesses, symptoms, disabilities, accidents, and failures in the world (no exceptions), are considered only due to a PTS condition. That means that EVERYTHING wrong in your life is due to a relative, boss, or friend and to NO other cause. This is the enslavement practiced upon your mind.

    [“Symptom-Re-stimulation Technology” makes more money for the Godless cult than all the books they sell or donations they receive. That is why they hide this technology from us in Scientology
    But now, for your complete protection — one very important thing has to be understood, that even a Priest can make you an effect-point. It is NOT the person or kind of person who makes you sick, but what is in inside of you.
    Mother Nature created you with many physiological warning signs, but your warning signs don’t always give the right signal, or you have not learned to understand them correctly, or they give you more than one signal or they give one now and another later or the signal (symptom) is delayed by a few days or up to about 72 hours. In this case, it is purposely misapplied to you or falsely taught to you by the Godless cult, so that you will misunderstand the true reasons of why you got sick. This Godless cult always blames wrong-targets, for what they call the person that caused the restimulation of a symptom that was brought-out by the act of anger.
    Symptom Re-stimulation is a delayed physiological reaction (effect-point) of suppression (cause-point), the un-conscious mind is very slow to bring it out to your awareness. In the course room the restimulation of Misunderstood words, lack of mass, and too steep a study gradient is faster, as it is more mental than physical.

    The secret of this is a long dead knowledge that was given to mankind and to all living beings by our creator. Yes — even animals have these delayed physiological reactions.

    Animals can use their physiological reactions better than man, because they are creatures of feelings more than creatures of thinking. They feel how they are inside and know instinctively when to run or fight. They depend on their
    (Physiological Reactions) senses better than man does – because man is practically a blind creature.

    But God put physiological reactions into the subconscious or unconscious mind of all his creations as a survival mechanism, but we have not wanted to confront our inner selves to bring it out of us.

    That is why it was hidden for so long, the Godless cult did not want you to know it, because these are very important secrets of life and death that they wanted to keep to themselves — in order to control and enslave you.
    It is in their financial interest to lie to you, because they will brain-wash you and make you think that, you know the REAL reason of why you got “sick”, and make you turn on whoever they claim is the cause-point (a friend or relative).

    They will usually blame a relative, even though you were around another person you argued with. By doing that they will enslave you even more.

    “Intent” such as: anger, hate, annoyance, hurt feelings or antagonism, is what causes a symptom re-stimulation. But what the Godless cult or symptom doctors refuse to tell you is this—that what is being restimulated is NOT an ILLNESS!!! But a warning that you have a weak-point in your body of one or more of the five causes of illness. The illness they claim that was re-stimulated–is in reality a symptom of underlying causes.

    Here is a clue to disprove why the cult that teaches that all illnesses are due to ONLY suppression. Everyone has a different re-stimulation—they come out with a different symptom when suppressed, with me it is always colds, with another it might be rashes or whatever. The point is that it is the underlying condition whether physical, nutritional or mental that will decide what symptom comes out.

    Since everyone’s physical and nutritional make up is different, it is very apparent that the connection is NOT with the hateful or suppressive person, but what is wrong inside of you that decides what symptom will manifest as a sign, to where the real causes of your problems are. Of course the re-stimulation is real, but it is deeper than that. There is where the lie is, it is not the person who is the real cause of your symptoms, but your warning signs from Mother Nature to tell you that your symptom or condition was brought out as a sign. So you must always study what comes out in order to really know your own condition.

    I researched this for many years, and know that if your typical symptom that gets re-stimulated is a rash– for example. Once you detoxify your body completely OR supply the nutrients for your skin, the rash never comes up again as an effect-point, but another symptom sign may now warn you of yet another physical condition for you to address. That was proof enough for me to know that they were lying to you and the world–and that I was right about my methods.
    They never give full and complete disclosure, and if you ask for it, you are regarded as a spy and given many lie detector tests (an ethics sec check) and listed in a lower condition and barred from further study.]

    “This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we’ve got some new ways to make slaves here.” LRH (from PDC tape lecture #20 “Formative State of Scientology, Definition of Logic”, given on 6 Dec 52)

    “All men shall be my slaves! LRH

    All women shall submit to my charms! LRH

    All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!” [L. Ron Hubbard, “Affirmations”, late 1940s] Affirmations, exhibits 500-4D, E, F & G. See Church of Scientology v Armstrong, transcript volume 11, p.1886.

    “Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal’.
    By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not.”
    L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966

    “THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM”. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them.” – L. Ron Hubbard, “Off the Time Track,” lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418

    “Scientology…is not a religion.” – L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251

    All living beings have physiological (The functions and activities of life or of living matter such as the organic processes of organs, tissues, or cells) phenomenas (observable reactions known through the senses rather than by thought or intuition), or physical manifestations (made evident by showing or displaying) or physical reactions, that we see or feel as symptoms, and they are external and/or internal or visible signs or warnings given to us, by our creator to help us survive, help us increase our potential, our knowledge and our health.

    All life on Earth has these cause and effect reactions called physiological phenomenas. All living beings whether they are plant, insect, retile or animal or human could not live without these reactions. They influence the body’s and the mind’s reactions to any form of stimuli, and have an influence on every cell of the body and mind.

    [Noun. Physiological reaction – Is an automatic instinctive unlearned reaction to a stimulus.]
    [Examples of physiological reactions: inborn reflex, innate reflex, instinctive reflex, reflex response, unconditioned reflex, accommodation reflex, Babinski reflex, belching, headache, migraines, swelling, sweating, erections, blinking, blushing, burping, defecation reflex, disgorgement, involuntary eye blinking, farting, skin flush, gag reflex, goose bump, goose pimple, gooseflesh, involuntary gulping, involuntary hiccup, knee-jerk reflex, light reflex, puking, papillary reflex, rectal reflex, regurgitation, shaking, shiver, shock, sneezing, startle, stretch reflex, suckling reflex, trembling, upset stomach, vomiting, involuntary winking, yawn, yawning — plus hundreds more.]

    Ron studied Physiological reactions more than most scientists and applied it to invent a new Religion.

    He did not invent but copied the laws of nature and scammed the whole world into thinking that he alone discovered these reactions and no one else did. What he did do – was noticed the reactions of students and from this scam invented Dianetics “study tech”.

    Examples of Physiological reactions of the body and mind when reading:
    Falling asleep while reading – yawning, confusion, feeling blank, feeling anxious, not there feeling, tearing eyes, eyes going out of focus, dizziness, reeling, rebelliousness, headaches, skipping words, feeling nauseous, fidgeting, jumpy while reading, can’t stay still, mispronouncing words, feeling as if you are squashed, feeling as if you are over-whelmed, twitching, can’t apply what you are reading, can’t understand what you are reading, etc. are all due to physiological reactions when you read misunderstood words or misunderstood definitions.
    To understand the secrets of your enemy –is to know exactly where to hurt him.

    Scientology’s copyrighted files are based upon the laws of Nature and laws of God; they are in violation of copyright and patent rights. Therefore, the contents or subjects can be used by anyone and can be talked about without fear of any lawsuit.

    Everything you do produces a reaction in your body and/or mind. Every time you read, eat, sleep, rest, run, fight, and argue etc. produces a reaction. This is the base upon which a false religion was built.

    To tell your mother that you invented a new religion, because you discovered why you fell asleep after reading, is a good example of the scam that Ron pulled on you. He got away with it because the world did not see these reactions as they applied to reading. Or if some scientist saw and knew it—he did not protest it and allowed a Cult to claim it as their own new discovery.

    If you want to destroy the cult or understand the frauds of this Godless Cult, study your own physiological reactions each time you do something—learn to read/study your own physiological reactions by yourself, by simply and purposely passing misunderstood words, and use your own power of obnosis to discover the real world within you.

    Physiological reactions manifest even when playing cards, but you never went deeper than calling the bluff. EVERITHING, let me repeat that – EVERYTHING you do will produce a reaction.

    The use of the knowledge of Physiological Reactions has served to help me and my friends to find the real causes of our illnesses. We are no longer blind about why our creator put symptom restimulations within us. I have learnt to self cure many real illnesses just by studying the reactions or signs that are called symptoms.

    The Godless Cult wants you to fear and hate your physiological reactions.

    You should learn to really obnose all your physiological reactions, in that way you will then see life as it really is.

    The Ronbot Hunter
    All Rights Reserved.

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