Dark Ride

Joy Graysen, wife of Michael Fairman, recently posted her story on Marty’s blog. Long and rambling though it may be, I consider this one a must-read for protesters, as it tells in great detail how Scientologists get seduced and later disillusioned by the Church.

In reading Ms. Graysen’s story, I had an epiphany (a “cog” or “cognition” in Scientologese) about how people come to blame Church leader David Miscavige for the evil policies of the Church that actually originated with Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard.

In many ways, it relates to a Scientology concept of being a stable point in time and space. When people become disillusioned with the organized Church of Scientology, they tend to see themselves as the stable point, and the Church as the element that changes.

But the truth is that Scientology is like a move-through “dark ride” at an amusement park. The scenery is static; it’s the observer whose position changes.

Ms. Grayson’s ride through Scientology is typical. She heard about it from someone she knew and trusted (her father) and got involved when she had a specific problem to solve. Ms. Grayson soon had an even bigger need when her father, to whom she was close, passed away. She found solace in Dianetics – not surprising, as LRH cribbed Dianetic auditing from proven psychotheraputic techniques.

If you read her story, you will see that Ms. Grayson’s Scientology indoctrination went exactly according to Hubbard’s plan. Enthralled by her successful therapy and the love-bombing to which public Scientologists are subjected, she willingly uprooted her life to as to surround herself with Scientology.

“In 1989, I moved to Los Angeles to be near CC Int [Celebrity Centre International] and immersed myself in the group,” she writes. “I lived across the street from CC, and associated mostly with other Scientologists. I felt safe knowing that we all shared the same knowledge of ethics and ARC, and were all learning to understand ourselves and each other spiritually.”

Ms. Grayson met and married a Scientologist (actor Michael Fairman), spent her inheritance on more Scientology services, and encouraged her sister to do the same, to the tune of $89,000.

But then Ms. Grayson started noticing the holes. Needing to ask for permission for time off course to have a baby. High prices. High-pressure, hard-sell tactics to donate or buy new versions of books. She even saw the foolishness in Tom Cruise’s public displays of elation, although she apparently missed the parallels to her own decision to uproot her life and immerse herself in Scientology culture.

“I started to notice an extreme lack of tolerance,” she continues. “I observed an arrogance and a ‘holier than thou’ point of view towards anyone who was not a Scientologist. My ‘friends’ would have a ‘no sympathy’ attitude towards homeless people, homosexuals, as I mentioned, and really anything remotely liberal minded. I thought compassion and understanding were at the core of Scientology’s values.”

And where does Ms. Grayson lay the blame for all the “changes” she saw? Yup, you guessed it – she thinks the Church is changing, moving away from LRH’s original intentions.

Of course, it doesn’t take more than a few minutes’ research into LRH’s Admin Tech to see that the injustices and problems Ms. Grayson noticed were not new. Requesting time off to have a baby? That’s covered by LRH’s concept of “The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” (his version of “The needs of the many outweigh he needs of the few”). High-pressure sales tactics? That can be found in HCO PL 26 Sept 1979, COPYWRITING, specifically the section called “HARD SELL:”

“HARD SELL: …assume that the person is going to sign up right now. You tell him that he is going to sign up right now and he is going to take it right now. That is the inference. One does not describe something, one commands something… Hard sell means insistence that people buy.” — LRH

LRH apologists might point out that LRH was referring to all forms of copywriting, but the same policy makes it clear that LRH was talking about how to sell Scientology:

“You’re offering a service that’s going to rehabilitate the thetan and that is lasting. — LRH

Ms. Grayson was particularly disheartened by what she calls the Church’s “intolerance of homosexuality.” (And rightly so.)

“I myself had witnessed countless examples of… the generality that all gays are covertly hostile,” she wrote.

And yet if she’ll just crack open her copy of Handbook for Preclears, she’ll see it from LRH himself:

“Homosexuality is about 1.1 on the Tone Scale.”

1.1 is “covert hostility.” (More on Scientology’s attitude towards homosexuality here.)

Disillusioned with the Church, Mr. Fairman and Ms. Grayson started reading more on the Internet, including Marty’s blog, and then they came to their fork in the road: Leave Scientology or just leave the Church? They chose the latter, and started buying their auditing from Marty Rathbun. As with anyone who leaves the Church, and in keeping with LRH policy, Ms. Fairman soon found herself “disconnected” by the family to which she was once so close.

Ms. Grayson’s assumption is that the Church changed. I submit that the Church stayed the same, and Ms. Grayson and her husband simply moved to a different part of the ride. LRH’s own, pre-1986, un-altered policy makes it clear that little of what they find distasteful is new; they simply didn’t become “Rondroids” to the degree they were expected to. All this will become clear if they are willing to look. But really looking is painful, and like many disillusioned Scientologists, they just aren’t ready.

Marty Rathbun will no doubt do his best to convince the Fairman-Graysons that it was indeed the Church that changed, and not their perspective. Marty is well trained in LRH’s Administrative Technology, and was an active member of Miscavige’s inner circle when many of LRH’s original policies were altered, so he should know better than most what LRH really said.

But Marty has discovered what LRH knew: Celebrities make great customers, because a) they are influential and b) they have lots of money to spend. That’s why LRH went out of his way to court them – and now Marty is following suit. Marty loves to fish, and Michael Fairman and Joy Grayson are whoppers on his line.

The saddest part of Ms. Grayson’s declaration comes near the end:

“Despite the arrogant valence of rightness most of them are stuck in, they are, in actuality, poor, duped victims, whose original intention was to dedicate their lives to helping their fellow man. By their own misguided trust and blind faith, they have allowed themselves to be manipulated so thoroughly, they can’t see that the Church they are fighting for is what is eating them alive.”

Ms. Grayson sees the truth – she just doesn’t know she sees it.

And you can bet your last dollar that Marty Rathbun will do his best to keep it that way.

ML,
Caliwog

P.S. The organized Church responded with this article. Read it if you’d like to see just how ruthless and mean-spirited the Church can be. Remember, this is the same group that was love-bombing her in 1989. I think this is sad and pathetic — misguided though she may be, Ms. Grayson is really hurt, and I feel sympathy for her, while her former friends clearly hold her in disdain. No doubt that, with the help of Marty and his sheep, she’ll blame this “us vs. them” mentality on Miscavige and his new regime. We know the truth.

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30 responses to “Dark Ride

  1. You know me – cool, calm, centered and completely rational to a fault – and it would never be in my nature to publicly give a guy a hard time…

    BUT…

    I’ve got this real problem – about every month I get 1-3 new emails from some quack job (either real, or an OSA Op) claiming to have left the Sea Org or Scientology and seeking answers. And these people are real pain-in-the-asses.

    It’s the typical stuff, “Some it worked for me” and “I can’t make sense of the bad stuff”. You go through the same routine with these car-wrecks, you ask them if they know what a brain is, and when they answer your various questions you know you should start another cult cause you would so much money getting these quacks to get suckered again.

    It is like a lot of ex-SO I know. 99% of them are either still thinking Scientology works or they have joined a new religion or other cult or conspiracy.

    It is like they just don’t get that the hamburgers are bad for you – Scientology was their big Double Whopper with cheese, and somebody gives them a Wendys 1/2 Pound Double and they jump up and down because it is “totally radical and new”. You look closer and it’s got lettuce, buns, meat in the middle, a bit of cheese – jesus christ it is the same fucking thing with a little sauce added to make it different.

    These quacks need to be quarantined. I say, keep the Church of Scientology Doors open as well as Marty’s so we know where to find all the whack-jobs of the world.

    They are complete morons and very few get “unmoroned”. This piece of work from Romania I have on my email is a sad bloody case. I wish I could feel sorry for him but his replies justifying his entire existence to be slave to someone’s whim in a cult is just too good to be true, it must be an OSA Op.

    Like the C of S and Marty, culties are in love with the dream of OT and Clear in whatever form it is sold in – and it is just the dream of it that makes them smile. It is like they have a lottery store to walk to, to cash in their ticket, but it takes a few years to walk there.

    They are just too fucking stupid to stop and check the numbers – they have been duped more by their own megalomania than any cult leader.

  2. While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I’m reminded of Robert Vaughan Young’s story.

    He escaped the RPF, was found and _talked_ into going back into the RPF.

    When he escaped the second time he knew he had to get as far away as possible as quickly as he could because they would likely be able to talk him back again.

    But with some time and distance he was able to break the spell, as it were, which he compared to the hold abusive partners have over their victims.

    Marty seems to target people who have not yet been able to get the necessary distance from the subject, and while some people are as you describe and may never snap out of it, some will do so if allowed some space.

    So I think there remains a segment of Martyologists who can be helped to see that it is still just a hamburger.

  3. The whole of $cientology is impressing ElRon’s psyche on his followers (independent or not). Some people absorb it unquestioningly, others not so much. To take one person’s psyche and essentially ‘brainwash’ it into someone else, is harmful. Some minds can willingly absorb it, while others either are not big enough or that mind has previous life experiences that makes it unsusceptible to brainwashing. Back in the 50’s, ElRon could have been a master hypnotist at the travelling carnival. Human education, experience and knowledge has increased exponentially since then. As a species, we are not so gullible as we once were, so the brainwashing either doesn’t work at all or the mind rejects what it considers BS.
    In any event, Marty has found his niche, where he can get money from those not fully rejecting the brainwashing. Ronbots indeed.

  4. Profound cog Caliwog. It’s as if these exes fail to understand that most people in the cult, are still in their honeymoon phase with the tech, in spite of David Miscavige. He’s part of their “stability.” To them, he’s keeping it all on source. And even we can see how he’s doing that!

    It is the system that made this woman’s sister more devoted to DM than to her sister. That hasn’t changed since the days of Hubbard.

    The Martyology exes are clinging to their memories of their elation, happiness, and wishful thinking, the same things the current members are clinging to so desperately.

    It is this whole concept of SOURCE that DM has preserved but the world is changing fast. I was happy to read Amy Scobee’s parents got out.

    I was thinking of this recently in terms of the Super Power Rundown. Hubbard just left a rough sketch of what this was to be about. Poor little Davie had to throw this BS (the contraptions and processes) together and get the show on the road, because Xenu sales are down. It is going to be a riot, too, when it comes out. DM is going to have quite a task to pretend this is SOURCE.

    This woman’s view is similar to Isene, who can’t envision that is possible he would have overcome his adolescent shyness, simply by maturing, or by any other way.

    They view all wogs as people who are barreling toward drug addiction, failure and self-destruction.

    The cult is stuck with a hot, steaming, pile of Source, and a mountain of unflattering facts about Hubbard that are going to glare brighter as more books come out.

    I was reading the Notes of the Reitman book. It said Marty would not consent to be interviewed. Mike did though. That’s going to create a bit of a division in Marty world, and I really wonder what his advice to followers will be on this book.

    It is scathing, about Hubbard.

  5. “The Martyology exes are clinging to their memories of their elation, happiness, and wishful thinking, the same things the current members are clinging to so desperately.”

    This is so true. And is a fact. Which also means it really did happen. Those people really did get wins, elation and happiness with Scientology.

    As far as the brain is concerned, what it perceives equals reality. Period. And we are all guilty of it – I can factually look right now at the coffee table before me – it seems real enough, solid, but it is a 100% fact that it is comprised of almost no mater – if the electrical force was taken away from the atoms and the electrons, protons and neutrons were simply laid side by side – without crushing them, laid side by side – it would be such a small amount of mater that even a powerful microscope would find it almost impossible to view. And when I reach it, it feels real, but it is also a 100% fact that I have never touched it – the electrical repel force of the electrons means that I have simply pushed against the electrical field and come within nanometers or less of the table – but I have never touched it.

    But yet I think I touch it every day and I see this huge object – and it is simply false.

    My point?

    What the brain perceives happened, happened. So if they are experiencing wins, then they must be.

    If there is harm that can come by experiencing these wins, then is there a safer way? Yes there is.

    The question is whether or not the guys applying Scientology understand the very real downside.

    Because whether they can perceive it or not, there factually is. the problem with Scientologists is though, that they are concerned with their own perceptions and to hell with everyone else.

    So the kid who grows up with the fucked up parent is the victim, and the society that suffers as a result of the selfishness of Scientology also pays.

    And that is the greater reality of everyone AROUND Scientology because it is factual. when they can get responsible enough to get their heads out of their own ass’es and see this, and understand that Scientology is spreading problems – we might see them leave.

    Right now Marty is in his own little universe and is bringing others into a commonly desired universe (but only for current Scios).

    So be it.

    But screw the indi’s trying to alter reality for OTHERS and attempting to bring them into it – that many people have a huge issue with. Given 500 Million, Marty would trust Scientology down a lot of people’s throat because he thinks he knows what is best for them.

    The amount of screwed up families is shocking out of Scn – for every guy who gets a “win” there seems to be suicides, death, separation, children without real parenting and a social burden in cost that is hard to calculate – but it is high. Take any senior exec of the Church, inside or out and look – adoptions, abortions, no communication with siblings, mental health lock-up, murder, unhappiness.

    Not unlike the junkies that swear by their stock – they swear you will enjoy it and damn right you will, too.

    Beware the drug that is Scientology. Distance will not change anything. A junkie is a junkie, you got to get to the core of why they are a junkie, not why they are a Scientologist.

    • “Beware the drug that is Scientology. Distance will not change anything. A junkie is a junkie, you got to get to the core of why they are a junkie, not why they are a Scientologist.”

      That there is some brilliant stuff Mr. Saxton.

      Marty is getting them to to try the same drug in a safer place. And for now that’s the best they can do. Steve Hall has come out and heavily endorsed the book “Inside Scientology” and that will mean a lot of people will read it.

      This is good. The real LRH gets revealed.

      Marty has also disconnected some top people for not being severe enough to the “sacred science.” Silvia Kusada has been kicked out of Marty’s independent club because she came out and endorsed “Squirrel Groups” like Ron’s Org.

      This is good.

      It will show the true believers that Marty has the “game face” but yet will later serve to wake them up that Independents are intolerant of other Scientology groups.

      This is good.

      If Marty ONLY keeps the serious Kool Aid drinkers, then that helps people see the sandwich you so eloquently spoke of.

      That said, I’m about to actually eat a CHEESEBURGER.

      You made me hungry…

  6. It gets down to another thing. People, recovering from years in the cult, are probably better off if they don’t perceive themselves as losers, having wasted years and/or thousands on a scam. It is overload. It is overwhelming to the psyche.

    It is quite a switch to go from believing you are becoming enlightened, and saving the planet, sometimes for decades, to instead realize you were had.

    They feel like they’ve not only lost a purpose and cause, but they’ve lost themselves.

    I’m not seeing people flocking to Marty after 2 years in the cult. Most of his following are people who were in for a decade or more.

    It is easier for them to blame Miscavige, and they don’t have to feel like they are abandoned or alone, and they’ve got a new cause.

    They don’t want to be around people like myself who might make them feel like broken failures. And if they chose the cult on their own, without their parents guiding them into it, it is probably even more difficult.

    Whether it takes a few months or years, I think it is important that these people have other viewpoints to see though, including criticism of Martyology.

    Scientology, being the way it is, I now see Martyology as an essential half-way step for many people.

    Let’s look at the possible ramifications of the Reitman book for existing cult members. They won’t read it, but the buzz they hear about it, could get cult members to read Marty’s blog. They’ll be curious about what his “reforms” are, if their case isn’t going well, if they are sick of the Sea Org, or running out of money as a public.

    A public exodus of vocal and communicative ex-members, even if they stick with Martyology, is going to throw up red flags to the public.

    Too many people got into Scientology without hearing ANYTHING negative about Hubbard, the cult, how it operates, or Miscavige.

  7. lurker(not the mostly)

    I may have mentioned it before, but I was watching a video of a man who had been roped into Scientology as a 19 year old, and only really got out because his parents managed to put pressure on him to leave quickly (before he was too fully indoctrinated)… He said that even in the 2 weeks or so he had been in, love bombed, and whatever other mind games they played, caused him to have to be watched for years, by his father, because he would fall for just about every scam out there.. His ability to critically think and look for the pitfalls was completely destroyed and took years to rebuild…

    Its possible that some people have fewer skills in those areas, and so its easier to fall and harder to wake up, but from reading the martyites, it always strikes me how few critical thinking skills they have… and thats the part I feel sorry for them, because without the ability to be a wee bit cynical or skeptical of a new gurus claims, they are practically sitting ducks..

  8. Martyology has the drama and fight the hard-bitten, victimized Scilons crave. Their fight is even grander than LRH’s, as they get to fight off the immense evil of David Miscavige, save all the people in his trap, and then CLEAR THE PLANET with real OT powers.

    Ideally, people leaving the cult should take a one year breather, for wider reflection, rather than just diving right into Martyology, but I see why they dive right into it.

    The cult had a structure for power and pride: A Sea Org, a ship, new buildings, a billion dollars, a tradition, an OSA, wealthy believers, celebrities. People were kept in line with the KRs and Sec Checks. They could feel proud about their $100,000 or one million dollar gift to build Super Power.

    What did the cult lack that Martyology has some of, at least? Communication! Even though Marty censors posts, the people who have ideas are much more free to voice them, than when they were in the cult.

    Imagine how good it feels for them to be able to rant against Miscavige. It is cathartic. It’s the first time they’ve been able to communicate, and been allowed to blame someone other than themselves or the evil psychs, or other SPs.

    Marty releases people from the horrible burden of blaming themselves for pulling it in. For some of these people, it is the first time they are at least starting to think critically about anything having to do with the cult.

    The Martyologists and FZers are excited because of Reitman’s skewering of Miscavige. She’s more critical about LRH though. She uses the word “huckster” to describe him in one of the first sentences:
    ————————-
    Chapter 1, The Founder

    Whatever else may be said about Lafayette Ron Hubbard, he undoubtedly had a strange and unique genius. One of the most effective hucksters of his generation, he understood the common American yearning for self-transformation and exploited it by connecting this impulse to two of the great American passions of the twentieth century: science and religion.
    ——————
    The public who reads her book is not going to come away debating the merits of DM’s cult, vs. Martyology or FZ, they are going to come away stunned by the FREAK SHOW, with the star of it all being the nutty founder, and the realization that stars like Travolta and Cruise are deep in this do-do, without even knowing what is going on.

  9. Something more. Even though Miller’s book went into much more depth about Hubbard’s childhood and young life especially, Reitman’s book is an unparalleled look at the bigger picture, in terms of an introduction for the public.

    Each of us may see some of her opinions expressed in public, as off or narrow in some aspects, she didn’t get lost in the forest. Her careful focus on Hubbard, Miscavige, Lisa McPherson, another couple, with much input from several other members woven in, is going to appeal to the public.

    No one is going to join Martyology after reading her book, except, possibly some cult members. How? The one point that might trickle out to the consciousness of cult members, is the [attempted] cleaving of the movement, with the cult’s former Attorney General at the head. It is just something they’ll find curious, wanting to see how big an SP he is.

    The same type of cult member who could completely ignore Lisa’s death, Cooper’s book, Scobee/Many/Headley/Hawkins book, and all the others, is not going to be able to ignore the fallout from Reitman’s book.

    I’d say her book is going to have five to ten times the cult-crumbling impact of anything that has been written or happened before, just because of the timing, the advances in the web, and the ability of the media to chatter and confront.

    Hide-tech and curtain tech is not going to work with this one. One thing I don’t know is whether her book will hit as a sensation, skyrocketing to the top of the best seller list, or will it seep in.

  10. Marty Rugburn

    This rambling, incoherent sentence was in Marty’s latest blog post where he says he is a professional writer:

    I found many former members of the cult felt most robbed – and the chief reason they stayed in an abusvie, cult-like environment – was
    their fear of the cruel, well funded attacks Corporate Scientology had become
    infamous for leveling against those with the temerity to say, as the first
    Protestants did in 16th Century Europe, “I do not need the imprimatur of a corrupt priest to read, understand and live the words written by the Founder of my chosen faith.”

    WTF?

    • LOL. Marty continuing to cast himself as a retarded Martin Luther. Heavy on the retarded, light on the Luther.

      His twisted Foreword to Marc Headley’s book was worse.

      He’s always trying to sound so epic. I shudder at the thought of him writing his book. He needs a ghost writer or a BT cluster or something to write his book for him.

      I stopped reading his blog because I got tired of trying to figure out what he was trying to say. I let Caliwog do that for me. He understands Marty and Hubbard too.

      • >I shudder at the thought of him writing his book.

        The way he writes? I *salivate* at the thought of him writing a book!!!!

        ML,
        CW

  11. Marty Rugburn

    Hubtard taught him well!

  12. lurker(not the mostly)

    the latest marty blog is a real hoot… its an open letter to his community in texas about the harassment going on… Seriously, I am sure this stuff is a pain in the ass, but it reeks of Keystone cops, compared to the kind of fair gaming that other critics get…

    Of course marty buys into the stupidity and plays right back… I swear, its like watching “Jack ass” populated with old men who can’t hack the stunts anymore, so they are resorting to fart jokes…

  13. Marty has practically canonized himself in his latest blog entry “An Open Letter”…..”Saint Mahty” what a maroon !!!!

  14. What cracks me up is that he published his “open letter” to his community on his blog. How many people in Ingleside, Texas do you suppose read marty’s blog? Now, if he had published it in the local newspaper, that would be a different matter entirely.

    I don’t think Marty really wants the harassment to stop. It’s great marketing tool for him and makes the CoS look like idiots.

  15. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_schism

    “Two men simultaneously claimed to be the true pope. Driven by politics rather than any theological disagreement[.]”

    This seems more like the Marty / Miscavige situation than Martin Luther.

  16. Just a few quick comments because I am too lazy to go back to mention the previous posters and even though as an ex that still researches and read blogs I have a life now too hehehehehe. Ok, Aaron your keeping it real, lol. One can always count on Aaron speaking his opinions honestly and clearly.

    As for the another commentator, yes taking time off and away once out is crucial and only the beginning of decompression. Fortunately for myself after leaving friends behind, and knowing what would happen, I took that time. It is a very valid and important step for any course of life that has shaken one, never mind having been under such a mind bending environment.

    Marty’s blog, ugh is really hard for me to read. Even as an ex who understands what people are writing about, I find it turns my mind to mush. And I really find I don’t ever wish myself to be in some bubble where the philosophy has to be so agreed upon, enforced, policed to be part of even a discussion. If it can’t be honestly debated I have long ago come to the conclusion, it can’t stand up to scrutiny. It’s really that simple. I could never and am ever aware of throwing away my intellectual freedom. Marty’s blog to me is a painful reminder of some dark place I was at.

  17. I heard the tragic story of a guy who got roped into Scientology as a kid with little choice.

    His father was in, mum, and also his brother got roped into it. The parents in the Sea Org meant that the kids got no choice but to be Sea Org members.

    the kids obviously became Messengers as most kids do, and learned the hard way that they had to be pretty cruel to make it in CMO- even if it meant punishing friends and family members.

    Because they were raised in it, they knew little else and were always told that Messengers were the key to a successful Scientology?

    Aaron Saxton?
    Laura Dieckman?
    Marty Rathburn?
    David Miscaviage?
    Michell Tampion?
    Wilhere?

    Name your victim – same MO. Same for many kids raised. Whether or not they are an enemy depends on whether they are in or out – or should it matter what kind of a person they are?

    You don’t see 99% of them starting their own cults – I guess that means most of them were OK, and a few are just pricks.

    Anyone out who really got what was going on in there is not sad about the fact they wasted their life there, they are truly happy they are not there now and have a life. Except Marty – who has to recreate the Sea Org and control it so he can be top dog – the kid never got loved.

    The public Scios just do not get what a salve camp their donations buy – they are essentially all in agreement with slave labor, and while they say they will disagree with the Sea Org conditions, the RPF etc. they will happily condone it and make it exist because they want their services.

    There is not a single Sea Org member bar a a very few that actually like being slaves 24/7. They just all think they have to, to make LRH’s dreams become a reality.

    What Marty is doing is creating another cult with rules, suppressives, enemies and dreams that can not be realized.

    He is an asshole, and any Scio that can not see that is an A-O, too.

    I think DM very much enjoys Marty round up the disaffected ones – it saves him the time and money to find them, and because the C of S monitors traffic of all its best members, they know who is around the corner to disaffect. Marty is a blessing to DM, the ultimate Dead Agent, hard at work, saving the Sea Org time and money.

    Marty isn’t destroying Corporate Scientology – he is assisting it and ensuring the weeds get out before they cause too much damage.

    C of S hates Anon and the protest movement because they destroy their recruitment lines – but good old Marty is there taking out the trash.

    I should write him a commendation.

  18. Psychotherapudic?

    Just sayin’.

  19. My God, the comments on Marty’s “Open Letter” are priceless – especially the references to the similar “harassment” of LRH. What harassment? The man was a criminal! being a wanted criminal is not the same thing as being harassed.

  20. These guys -R+R -run a SO veteran regulars´table. They make a lots of noise. If you wanna find out whats really ongoing one never listens to the noise. I have not been evaluating yet all out points and plus points of that show, but it smells. I can tell you 100% sure that Rinder does not tell us everything he knows, especially on the subject of covert operations. He shoots towards miscavige but in fact he is still protecting the Church as an organisation. If he would speak, some churches in Europe would be probably closed, at least it would break (from a PR view) their neck for the rest of the universe. Some Docs they presented (though old) , must be routed directly from the church to them.
    Think yourself

    • I think most people who follow this blog take it as a given that M&M aren’t saying everything they know, but any specific information you have would be interesting.

      • Of course those information is interesting.I personal am not interested just having annother story in public, then its just annother story.
        In order to use confidential information intelligent to create an effect, it must be confirmed by at least one better two persons(Affidavits). Evidence must be procured, and the set up for the above must be done under the surface. And it must be cast iron proof. Rinder could do it. But whenever a discussed subject. Goes into such a direction R+R are ignoring it completely. No comments ZERO. It does not exist. They speak about SCN stone age bullshit from the 70 ith GO.*lool
        Research this Item: Daniel Fumagalli. Jesse Prince can give you some
        very interesting data about this guy. ML

  21. “Rinder could do it”?

    Hundreds already have. The various givernments are simply careful to step into matters regarding Religion and as a general rule, do not give two stuffs about what happens in Church – especially when the matter to hand always results from a primary agreement from the person to agree to the punishment or treatment they get in some various way.

    Marty and Rinder are dead-ends.

    Worry about other people – if there is any point.

    • Thats not what I am talking about. I speak about: infiltration of government authorities. Rinder,Weiland and Micaviges ass should be kept in the US,
      Otherwise they probably will slide into deep legal shit. You understand that I do not publish everything I know, and I have to leave enough out-points so nobody can follow my track. Thank you for listening.

  22. For you Marty…

  23. Here is LRHs “Brilliance” LOL

    “light-year kilotons per microsecond” Power of a thetan…LOL
    WTF????

    It doesn’t matter how many years you study physics, this formula is nonsense…

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