“…in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation… more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.
“Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.”
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
And so it goes with the Independent Scientology movement, or at least those who follow Marty Rathbun.
In his latest blog entry, Obstruction of Justice – which, by the way, has nothing to do with actual obstruction of actual justice – Marty Rathbun once again tries to blame the harassment leveled against him by the Church on David Miscavige. This time, they are apparently aware of his travel plans, and are both tracking him and trying to bug his wife when he is out of town.
Marty’s accusations are most likely true*; as we all know, the Church of Scientology really is that slimy.
(* Except for one little detail that one of you guys pointed out: Marty says they sent his wife a dildo at her “work address,” but last month Marty told us that April 29th was her last day of “outside work.” Hmm…)
The problem I have is when Marty treats all of this as if its something new – and as if he never had any hand in this sort of harassment.
May I present Exhibit A: this video by Mark Bunker of Xenu TV. Mark was in Clearwater, Florida, on a trip for the Lisa McPherson trust. The evening before he was scheduled to leave, he got a call in his hotel room from a man saying he worked at the front desk, asking if Mark was leaving the next day and offering to arrange a cab. But when Mark went down to the front desk a few minutes later, the desk clerks were all female. One of them confirmed that she’d had a phone call about a cab from someone who knew Mark’s hotel room number.
This happened in 1999, when Marty Rathbun was Inspector General and a member of the Board of Directors of the Religious Technology Center – a member of David Miscavige’s senior staff. At the same time, Mike Rinder was Executive Director of Scientology’s dreaded Office of Special Affairs.
In other words, Mike was the head spy and Marty was the assistant head thug. (“Assistant to the head thug” if you’re a fan of The Office.)
Now, maybe it’s me, but I think that’s a rather important detail, don’t you think? No question, given the roles they have admitted having in the Church, both Marty and Mike would have at least been aware of the campaign against Mark Bunker. Marty goes so far as to allege that the Church has people who can access airline records – how would he know that?
And yet, whenever he talks about how the Church harasses him and his wife, he stops short of talking about his own participation in such activities.
I believe that is commonly known as “a lie of omission.”
Frankly, I don’t see why Marty and Mike won’t be open and frank about this. They could say they’ve changed. They could say they were wrong and were only going along with what Miscavige told them to do, and that they now think it was wrong. Why don’t they?
Probably because they don’t think it’s wrong. After all, this sort of behavior wasn’t invented by Miscavige; it was dictated by L. Ron Hubbard.
But Marty and Mike have decided that the outside world doesn’t need to know that. After all, they’re just trying to sell auditing, and revealing the truth about Hubbard – as both Rathbun and Miscavige know – is bad for business. Better to just blame everything on Miscavige, leave out their own role, and hope that Hitler was right, and that people who trust you are willing to swallow immense amounts of bullshit.
Judging from the comments on Marty’s site – at least the ones he allows to be published – that seems to be working.
Heil Marty! Heil Hubbard!
ML,
Caliwog
Caliwog's Blog 
The dis-ingenuousness of Marty’s tale just boggles the mind. He speculates on how the cult knows his travel plans? They know it the same way that they knew critics’ travel plans when his best bud Mike Rinder was running OSA! But not once has Marty seen fit to tell how the cult does it.
Marty’s perfectly willing to play the “I was top management” card when he needs to pump up his creds, but he will never admit to have participated in or directed any of the bad shit.
I posted this reply (complete with embarrassing typo). Marty didn’t publish them. Big surprise!
Anonymous | May 31, 2011 at 8:19 pm | Reply
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Hold on, Marty, the Church was doing this same sort of thing to Mark Rathbun back in 1999. You and Mike were in charge then, why didn’t you do anything to stop it? Why are you surprised that it’s happening now?
Anonymous | May 31, 2011 at 8:19 pm | Reply
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
I meant Mark Bunker, not Mark Rathbun.
somehow, even if all true, a dildo in the mail doesnt quite rise to the level of fair gaming and harassment that Paulette Cooper, et al dealt with…
Even recently… Emma(from esmb) had the police called on her and had her home raided… and Marty gets the Squirrel busters come to his door… (kinda makes you wonder if he is really still in, or just not considered that much of a threat to the church)…
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
Caliwog, in regards to my comments on your other blog post, thank you for letting me know what happened to my comments – that they ended up in the SPAM filter.
Will that continue to happen, do you think? I’d rather not have to go through Mike each time, but if that’s the only way than que sera. For now.
I have something I’d like to tell you on THIS post of yours, as well.
You wrote:
“Judging from the comments on Marty’s site – at least the ones he allows to be published – that seems to be working.”
True. That is the APPEARANCE.
However, if you saw how many comments get axed, versus how many are “generated” (I’m being kind here), you’d get an entirely different picture.
That’s just the comments, then there’s the blatant stat manipulation which goes from as simple as different people assigned to repeatedly load the blog, to much worse than that. But that’s for another day, right now let’s focus on the comments.
For example, I, through someone that is quite close to the actual administrators of Marty’s blog, know that for every 1 comment that is “love-love-love Marty”?
It runs about 3-1 the OTHER direction. I’m actually being conservative here.
If you see 200 comments let’s say, there are OVER 600 that are not with the band-wagon.
Out of those approximately 600 non-visible comments, 200 or so are done by the same hand that makes a similar proportion of the “love-love-love Marty” comments. This is purely show for “insiders” that aren’t really. Marty or Mike can “show” a not-quite-hooked Scientologist the not posted “anti” comments to prove how much “they” are being attacked by OSA.
When in fact, Marty and Mike ARE OSA.
Now here’s the real point. The OTHER 400 comments, are NOT under their control in any way shape or form. They are REAL.
So in essence, you could say that for every comment you see? There are 2 very real comments, that show that way too many people out there DO SEE what Marty and friends are up to.
That’s the facts Jack.
I haven’t even mentioned what goes on on back-channels, live conversations, e-mails, etc. etc. That’s even worse – for Marty and Operation Save Scientology that is.
Appearances are everything to men such as this, but are BASED on nothing – far more often than not.
Marty’s obstruction of justice post, was, in my opinion, simply an attempt to ride on the back of the Jan Eastgate affair. Where a Church official staff member was arrested for obstructing justice on child sexual abuse.
Even though it occurred in the 1980’s, it is obvious that when it comes to that, the years are as nothing – as it should be.
Just prior to the breaking story re: Eastgate, Mike brought back into the light, a similar situation with a Keith Zambelich, Assistance Guardian for Intelligence San Francisco, who was PROMOTED to the next higher organization, the United States Guardian Office, after being caught and admitting to similar behavior. The parents were SILENCED and never brought charges. The parents were also GO staff.
See: http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/jim-estabrook-and-scientology-the-aquarian-effort/
I too, wish to help shed light on this matter, and will be providing more specifics about who the people involved are/were which I will give to Mike. If this subject is of any interest to anyone reading here, I would check Mike’s blog from time to time for new information.
Caliwog, I hope my comment today is acceptable as to length, if not please let me know and I’ll “take it elsewhere”. This is your blog and I respect that.
Thank you for listening.
Tabaccanist
http://tabaccanist.wordpress.com/
Caliwog – this is a test. I just posted a long comment here, and it did not show.
(posted same as yesterday’s which DID show, going through Mike McClaughry)
Perhaps it is the length, hence this test.
Ah, it was the length. I will break my original comment into parts then.
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry – Part 2
If you see 200 comments let’s say, there are OVER 600 that are not with the band-wagon.
Out of those approximately 600 non-visible comments, 200 or so are done by the same hand that makes a similar proportion of the “love-love-love Marty” comments. This is purely show for “insiders” that aren’t really. Marty or Mike can “show” a not-quite-hooked Scientologist the not posted “anti” comments to prove how much “they” are being attacked by OSA.
When in fact, Marty and Mike ARE OSA.
Now here’s the real point. The OTHER 400 comments, are NOT under their control in any way shape or form. They are REAL.
So in essence, you could say that for every comment you see? There are 2 very real comments, that show that way too many people out there DO SEE what Marty and friends are up to.
That’s the facts Jack.
I haven’t even mentioned what goes on on back-channels, live conversations, e-mails, etc. etc. That’s even worse – for Marty and Operation Save Scientology that is.
Appearances are everything to men such as this, but are BASED on nothing – far more often than not.
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry – final part of comment
Marty’s obstruction of justice post, was, in my opinion, simply an attempt to ride on the back of the Jan Eastgate affair. Where a Church official staff member was arrested for obstructing justice on child sexual abuse.
Even though it occurred in the 1980’s, it is obvious that when it comes to that, the years are as nothing – as it should be.
Just prior to the breaking story re: Eastgate, Mike brought back into the light, a similar situation with a Keith Zambelich, Assistance Guardian for Intelligence San Francisco, who was PROMOTED to the next higher organization, the United States Guardian Office, after being caught and admitting to similar behavior. The parents were SILENCED and never brought charges. The parents were also GO staff.
See: http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/jim-estabrook-and-scientology-the-aquarian-effort/
I too, wish to help shed light on this matter, and will be providing more specifics about who the people involved are/were which I will give to Mike. If this subject is of any interest to anyone reading here, I would check Mike’s blog from time to time for new information.
Caliwog, I hope my comment today is acceptable as to length, if not please let me know and I’ll “take it elsewhere”. This is your blog and I respect that.
Thank you for listening.
Tabaccanist
http://tabaccanist.wordpress.com/
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry – Part 1
Caliwog, in regards to my comments on your other blog post, thank you for letting me know what happened to my comments – that they ended up in the SPAM filter.
Will that continue to happen, do you think? I’d rather not have to go through Mike each time, but if that’s the only way than que sera. For now.
I have something I’d like to tell you on THIS post of yours, as well.
You wrote:
“Judging from the comments on Marty’s site – at least the ones he allows to be published – that seems to be working.”
True. That is the APPEARANCE.
However, if you saw how many comments get axed, versus how many are “generated” (I’m being kind here), you’d get an entirely different picture.
That’s just the comments, then there’s the blatant stat manipulation which goes from as simple as different people assigned to repeatedly load the blog, to much worse than that. But that’s for another day, right now let’s focus on the comments.
For example, I, through someone that is quite close to the actual administrators of Marty’s blog, know that for every 1 comment that is “love-love-love Marty”?
It runs about 3-1 the OTHER direction. I’m actually being conservative here.
I have a posting stats report from 3/16/2011 as someone as kind enough to post the link on Marty’s blog.
As of that date there had been 76,059 comments on the blog. The breakdown is as follows:
#1. Marty 3938
#2. Cat Daddy 3250
#3. Jim Logan 2772
#4 – 57 Various 25,929
#58 – #2628 40,170
Half the 70,000+ posts since January, 2009 have been made by 57 people.
Only 156 posters have 100 or more posts.
Of the remaining 2,472 posters, 1,074 have posted only one time.
I think the take-away here is that the Indie movement (at least Rathbun’s part of it) is pretty small. I believe that most of those who leave the cult just walk away from the “tech”.
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
Lest we not forget, those are the ones that MADE it.
Of those 57 people making 35,000+ comments that “did” make it, what you actually have there is not 57 people.
Per my figures, you have closer to 13 people, with 3 or more logins (identities not detectable by wordpress as one person).
See Anonymous’s expose of work-for-hire bid out to the government Intelligence agencies to create “maximum deniability” online false identities – for more information on how that can be done.
There is still the factor of approximately 3-1 running against Marty and the Operation Save Scientology show. Say 1500 Scientologists for every 300 love-love-Marty’ers that ARE NOT BUYING the new improved Scientology.
100 percent rejection of Scientology as a “workable technology” is the goal here, and that percentage is climbing fast.
Kudos to everyone honestly helping to free Scientologists. It’s working.
The real way, where the individual SEES it themselves (and doesn’t go jumping into some other religious or “humanistic” pit right away either)
Tabaccanist
tabaccanist.wordpress.com
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry, final part of comment was posted but did not show.
Try again.
Just prior to the breaking story re: Eastgate, Mike brought back into the light, a similar situation with a Keith Zambelich, Assistance Guardian for Intelligence San Francisco, who was actually promoted to the next higher organization, the United States Guardian Office, after being caught and admitting to similar behavior. The parents were silenced and never brought charges. The parents were also GO staff. Please see Mike’s blog post of May 28th – Jim Estabrook and Scientology, The Aquarian Effort.
I will be providing more specifics about who the people involved are/were which I will give to Mike. If this subject is of any interest to anyone reading here, I would check Mike’s blog from time to time for new information.
Caliwog, I hope my comment today is acceptable as to length, if not please let me know and I’ll “take it elsewhere”. This is your blog and I respect that.
Tabaccanist
http://tabaccanist.wordpress.com/
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
Twice now, tried to post final part of my comment. Won’t post.
Try once more.
Final part, cut down for this 3rd attempt to post.
Just prior to the breaking story re: Eastgate, Mike brought back into the light, a similar situation with a Keith Zambelich, Assistance Guardian for Intelligence San Francisco, who was actually promoted to the next higher organization, the United States Guardian Office, after being caught and admitting to similar behavior. The parents were silenced and never brought charges. The parents were also GO staff. Please see Mike’s blog post of May 28th – Jim Estabrook and Scientology, The Aquarian Effort.
Tabaccanist
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
Marty’s obstruction of justice post, was, in my opinion, simply an attempt to ride on the back of the Jan Eastgate affair. Where a Church official staff member was arrested for obstructing justice on child sexual abuse.
Even though it occurred in the 1980’s, it is obvious that when it comes to that, the years are as nothing – as it should be.
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
Weird. I took the links out, then it posted.
I’ll put them back now, as an experiment.
Mike’s blog post I referenced above:
http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/jim-estabrook-and-scientology-the-aquarian-effort/
I haven’t been able to ignore the red flags as regards Marty, et al. He knows the ops first hand, know OSA and DM inside and out and first hand, and the “harrassment” is literally jr. high level. I mean, really – knowing the ops that he and Mike both ran I am sure that they expected mucho more upon going public and challenging cos. The harrassment they have received pales, pales, pales. Yes, and then there is the lack of honesty and humility and remorse and apology for their actions, for whatever reason, while in cos.
The above really makes me wonder if they are indeed out, or if it is all a game.
Loved the Hitler quote. egh…. that I was there.
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry…
“The harrassment they have received pales, pales, pales. Yes, and then there is the lack of honesty…”
There is that.
Tabaccanist – Robert Van Heusen
tabaccanist.wordpress.com
I find it doubly “funny” that Marty not only credits himself for rooting out something that the McClaughrys did, but thinks others wouldn’t know the “source” and that others wouldn’t know what actual ops the GO/OSA are capable of. Good grief – Mike McClaughry is familiar with the GO (not sure when he left) . And, you didn’t have to be in the GO/OSA to know some of the shit they did. It WAS THE REASON FOR THEIR EXISTENCE.
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
There’s a lot of things “funny” with MarTAY.
Tabaccanist
tabaccanist.wordpress.com
Tabaccanist through Mike McClaughry
I don’t suppose anyone has considered the idea, that the reason OSA in their Official “unofficial” attack Marty sites, look so incredibly stupid and perpetually stuck in the 7th grade, is…intentional?
Consider the problem. You’d HAVE to look “that bad” to make Marty and the kids look “good”.
There’d be no other way because face it, the raw material leaves something to be desired right now. White Boy goes undercover – tries to be Black Mook Ghandi Martin Luther Yosemite Sam, all rolled up together. And this is how it came out –
Grab your balls, scuffle your plastic shoes, shave your head, throw on that used-car salesman smile and some JZ on the boombox, and call yourself a “man of the people”.
You can see the problem here.
THAT is why “OSA” is tasked to look El Stupido on those websites.
Really – how the fuck else could you possibly make Marty look good…
Hell, even when the McClaughry’s were playing the whole Hubbardite “The Marcabians Are Coming” demonstration publicly (for Agent David Griffin and many others benefit, including myself) –
EVEN WITH that absolutely KOOKY Hubbard material they had to work with, they STILL had more pull than this guy.
In my opinion, they were far more entertaining. Think back 10 years ago – you had David Griffin, the reincarnated Marcabian named “Jontu” and his Mr. Rogers “remote-viewing” adventures, where he was “destroying machines” everywhere he looked and sending “transmissions” through his antennae, you had stories of Marcabians ruling the world, weather-control, umpteen zillion year histories of Earth and the Universe, and on and on. Those are some difficult materials to have to work with and pull something off, let alone with a little PIZZAZ.
I’d like to see Marty try having to work with that shit. Be sort of like a clubfooted sloth trying to Irish step-dance. Be fun to see though.
Tabaccanist
tabaccanist.wordpress.com
The “ReligiousFreedomWatch” critic smear site, and especially the RFW forum while it was up, has always been much the same level of stupidity.*
I don’t think that they’re pulling their punches with Marty to make him look good. I think that’s all the punch they got. Also, keep in mind that those sites really only have one customer that they have to impress: David Miscavige. So long as Davie likes the schoolyard putdowns, then everyone is upstat.
* Some of the DA materials have had more thought and effort put into them for long time enemies such as Rick Ross.
I do not post all that often these days, but something my girlfriend said struck a chord in me. It was about Jason Beige and his drama that is unfolding with Daniel.
There is an assumption from many independents and I will say others, too, that anyone who leaves the church must be a top bloke (a good person). But such is not the case.
An underlying theme we see repeated by Marty and others who throw the tech down our throats is that “If it is fun, it is Scientology” and also “If you did well, you were applying Scientology correctly”.
But in my experience in the Sea Org and with dealing with Indi’s, this is just not the case. Scientology, nor any cult, religion or therapy actually changes a person at the core. We are NOT all good at the core – this is a scam produced by Scientology to essentially let a person know that they all have a chance at being a good person. What we often find is bad people start to act good, but in reality they are withholding their inner desires and eventually they snap back to what has got them beat – who THEY ARE.
We can see this in a vast number of cases in and out of Scientology – like with Marty, Jan Eastgate, the OT who killed his business partner, the others in Scientology who went all the way through to OIT VIII but committed fraud and child molesting. These are not cases of failed Scientolgoy technology – they are cases of failure to realizer that people can change their behavior, and they can alter matters within themselves, but to completely alter a person is just not a possibility.
I do not know Daniel. I do not know Jason. I assume they are good people until proven otherwise – certainly there are some who have made those very judgements about me – and we certainly have a right to judge.
And this brings me to this point…why is Marty or anyone else attempting to change anyone else (make them a “better person”). We have justice systems designed to handle those that deviate from agreements and we punish them so – because we certainly in this society do not have a correctional attitude to people (although it is called “corrections”).
I never saw anyone who was a bad person taken into Scientology and made to become good. Qualifications to be on staff and the Sea Org or even a Scientologist essentially bar a bad person from becoming involved.
We see in others what we see in ourselves. Marty and his crew seem to perceive an awful lot of bad in the people running Scientology – but this is actually not the case. Marty was running it for many many years – was he a bad person? Joe Kingi of Australia and David Mututara were gang members of New Zealand and allowed to join the Sea Org and when they revealed their crimes (and I am talking REAL crimes) they were allowed to remain. But soon enough, despite all the auditing and prcessing, they went back to their ways and were violent. Joe Kingi even went to the point of attacking protestors in Australia last year. Wayne Furnell – he went all the way up the bridge and yet still at heart is a child molester.
Tom Cruise was, and always will be an asshole. John Travolta has been fighting being gay for many years….
What Marty is selling doesn’t stick.
People are good to a lesser or greater degree unless they are totally insane. David Miscaviage is not totally insane – he just isn’t. Neither is Marty. Both have one thing in common though – they are trying to change people.
People who try to change other people are always suspect for the right reason – people do not need to be changed – you chose to associate with who you want. And more so, circumstance makes people act out and do things to fit the circumstances. when is it acceptable to kill another human being? When is it acceptable to cheat or lie?
Sometimes it isn’t, but sometimes circumstances make it OK to be like that. And with David we have to realize that his circumstance is that he was given the technology to control all of Scienotlgoy and was lied to and told that body of tech could save the world, make OTs and clears…and when it didn’t he altered it because even he could see that it factually never did any of those things. LRH changed his tech, too, and often because he saw the same thing.
Now we have DM in charge and he believes he is responsible for every human being making ti to clear – what do you think happens to a person with that sort of mindset? They go nuts.
And so with Marty we see the same thing – this desire to change people (whether they like it or not) and to use the tech to do this, and to insist that they hold all the keys to the gates.
After reviewing what MArty has done, and what DM has done excluding their circumstances and understanding that they may act out a certain way due to those circumstances we are left with core values which leads me to believe that neither are good people.
And nothing. Not the tech. Not good friends. Not a good life will ever change them. If anybody does well around them then it will be because they are good people and regardless of Scientology, simply know how to act and be good.
So with the indis, while their thoughts may be insane and beyond credibility, I still only care of they are good people or not – but some of them do not seem to care about that quality in others, all they care about is if you are on board in Scientology and to hell with anything else. That is a sure sign of the bad ones.
And Marty, you stick out because you just can’t accept that people can have happy, wonderful lives without Scientology and you think we are all doomed if we don’t take the dogma on-board. DM sticks out the same darn way.
The real people who need help are the ones saying everyone else needs it. What a sad world you two have both created. We seek no part in it, and because we are good people, we seek to thwart your efforts to expand and engulf people that do not require your services. We help people – you bag victims.
I’ve helped some come forward, or leave, but I never thought to mention them – but you do like they are trophies.
I guess Daniel and Jason are up for Sec Checks, right Marty? Perhaps an ARC break Session? Fly their ruds? Perhaps you can grace them both with a C/S 53. But whatever you do, it will be to change them under the guise of help – and for that, you simply suck, as a 100% certifiable asshole.
I suspect Daniel and Jason are good people form what I’ve seen and heard, thought I can’t be sure, and for whatever reason they had a tiff, they had a tiff. It isn’t the end of the world, they experienced emotions Marty, it is called being human – it happens when you are h-u-m-a-n – and only fuckwits like you make a human being guilty for being a human being.
Shhhh . . . how’s Marty gonna milk Jason B if you tell everyone its all a bunch of bullshit 🙂
Hubbard needed the THE BIG LIE to build the cult. Now that the internet has burst that hot air balloon, it makes the lie look all the more outrageous. Marty’s version of the lie looks just as silly to outsiders, made even more transparent when he’s being less secretive about his ideas.
Imagine how far Hubbard would have gotten if he’d just said “Dianetics might help with some things…you do what you can.”
Or, “It’s the greatest thing since the invention of the vibrating recliner.”
Marty is now posting about a giant conspiracy that followed him everywhere he went in CA, including tracing him via GPS etc…and posts a video of normal CA traffic…Kool aid anyone?
I posted “Any REAL docs/video? Random shots of California traffic do not a conspiracy make. Your followers are not THAT stupid! ”
which will of course be deleted.
It’s the Martywitch Battlefield LA Beghe/Montalvo Recovery Project. DM will not rest until MartyMike are followed to death by PIs.
The mystery continues. Did Montalvo really go to the police over the weed wacker incident, or is this just a distraction from Jan Eastgate-gate.
Astrid asked: “Did Montalvo really go to the police over the weed wacker incident”?
That would have been a weird way to repay a guy giving him a place to stay after escaping the Church of Scientology.
Especially when you compare the behavior to ex-INT crew who failed repeatedly to press charges for the alleged attacks by David Miscavige upon them.
And when we consider Jason is a celebrity in the public eye, going to the police would have been incredibly vindictive, knowing it could seriously damage his career.
Hopefully it was all just a great big misunderstanding. Otherwise, I would have to assume the house guest was sent undercover by the Church of Scientology to spy on Jason and attempt to sabotage him. (See Operation Freakout for more examples of the church framing people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout)
Here is why I think people should support Marty Rathbun. From my viewpoint he is doing the right thing regardless of his true intention. Here is why.
Regardless of Marty’s motives, any cult expert will tell you that when fundamentalist cult members leave a cult, they always seek for a place where their fundamentalistic beliefs are honored as they deeply wish them to be. This is typically the first step a cultie takes in getting out of a cult MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY.
This is a FACT. Let’s see what would be Marty’s best choice based on a variety of motives and potentials:
POTENTIAL #1: RATHBUN IS A BATSHIT, CRAZY KOOL-AID DRINKING TRUE BELIEVER:
If Rathbun really is a true believer then his actions reflect it and his best choice is to … ((DRUM ROLL))
“Give true believers the psychological safety to leave the church by holding its teachings and founder as right and the current management as wrong.”
POTENTIAL #2: RATHBUN KNOWS THE DIRT AND LIES ARE REAL ABOUT THE TECH AND KNOWS HOW PEOPLE RECOVER FROM CULTS and he realizes the best way to bring down the church, get people out to read the internet freely is to lie about being a true believer to…
((DRUM ROLL))
“Give true believers the psychological safety to leave the church is by holding its teachings and founder as right and the current management as wrong.”
POTENTIAL #3: Rathbun knows all the dirt is true but is an evil cult-leader in training and wants to become powerful and wealthy and acts the beloved role of hero to … ((DRUM ROLL))
“Give true believers the psychological safety to leave the church by holding its teachings and founder as right and the current management as wrong. (Once they are out, the control mechanics will kick back in and people go back up the bridge and he retires with a nice place to go fishing.)
POTENTIAL #4: MARTY IS RIGHT (And if so, I am SO screwed for the next thousand lifetimes cuz I don’t believe this) AND LRH AND THE TECH IS EARTH’S ONLY HOPE AGAINST XENU. And if so, he should act just like he is doing to… ((DRUM ROLL))
“Give true believers the psychological safety to leave the church by holding its teachings and founder as right and the current management as wrong.”
Marty provides a safe place for culties to go where they know the teachings they gave their lives for are administered in the way they perceive thief founder wanted them.
Regardless of his point of view or motive or alignment, he CANNOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE FLAWS OF SCIENTOLOGY AND GET TRUE BELIEVERS TO TRUST HIM AND LEAVE THE CHURCH AND TURN TO THEIR OWN OBJECTIVE REASONING.
There is an old Buddhist story of a man who had a house on fire. He and his wife escaped but the children were trapped inside. The father knew fear would grip them if they knew death was imminent so he yells, “Hey kids, there’s treasure and the toys you always wanted out here! Climb out your window.
The kids do and joyfully ask “Hey, Where’s the treasure?” The father said, “Right here” and hugs them.
Marty’s helping people in the ONLY way they CAN accept it so that they can get better. He’s getting kids out of the fire by dangling their desired deepest treasures outside their window.
I agree with you, but Caliwog and several people on ESMB perform a needed service in pointing out the errors in LRH tech, and the flaws in Marty’s approach and reasoning (or blindness) in upholding it.
Part of the recovery process for victims who were deceived by the system, is to find the ability to forgive themselves, and to attempt to understand David Miscavige, and how he was made. They need to forgive him in part, understanding that he was created by the system too.
A percentage of Martyologists, once they get a whiff of the freedom of ideas in places outside his blog, and the much greater sophistication and straight-forward logic in many of these ideas, well, they get used to the concept of critical thinking.
For a while they are finding a haven in the drama, the ego-sustaining camaraderie in Marty’s group of “we are the only REAL Scilons.”
For some, Marty’s group, is probably the best choice, if they have a relative stuck in the cult. After all, Ida was a great protester, but never saw her son.
Marty’s group provides some examples of how the cult treats former members, and its dramatic for us to follow too. The cult is in a awkward position trying to denounce a true-believer like Marty and his group. The cult can’t do the covert stuff like they could with Capt. Bill and Mayo.
The cult is one best selling book, one top celebrity, or one incident, away from a collapse.
Replacing a batshit insane cult with another version of the same batshit insane cult is not logical. His Martyology 2.0 is simply extending the time the cult has influence over these people. The sooner the Martyites realize the mindfuck they have been under, the better, all Marty is doing is delaying their eventual ‘recovery’, lining his pockets in the process.
This has nothing to do with logic William. Unless you logically factor in irrational human behavior regarding religion. And THEN it starts to make logical sense.
Bunkai, Scientology isn’t a religion in the sense you might believe it to be.
By calling it a religion, it confuses people into aligning Scientology’s ideas and practices to those of other religions.
Imagine if L. Ron Hubbard had a set of non-religious ideas and practices that he wanted to describe using the language of religion. Assuming this is what happened, then you can understand why “irrational human behavior regarding religion” applies less to Scientology than to other religions.
Scientology (the old version not the new) is the BEST DESIGNED MIND-CONTROL, PEOPLE-FLEECING SYSTEM EVER CREATED.
DM is a crappy cult leader. He can’t keep the peeps in line like Moon.
That said, we owe a lot to that Kool-smoking cult leader LRH. He has pimped slapped humanity by showing just how hackable we are and how deeply we can be entrenched into mental slavery through the painful object lesson called “Scientology.”
Our brains have security issues!
Steve Hassan and other cult experts state that the most common reason people leave cults is because the leadership does not live up to the “truth” the follower “KNOWS.”
So they leave believing in the religion (in Scientology’s case, the “Tech”) but “NOT THE WAY THAT DIRTY LYING SLEEZE BAG DOES IT!
After they leave to follow “the truth” as they know it without being subject to the social dynamics that make cults work many wake up after the real world sets back in.
But first they have to GET OUT. And what Marty is doing is getting them out in the way that works best – by promising them the tech and teachings they love. For many, it is the only real way they will leave.
Not saying Marty is “right.” I’m just saying what he is doing is getting people out regardless whether or not he actually believes it.
The best way to GET them out is not to say “Your tech is wrong and LRH is a crook and here are the docs brother” but rather, “Your tech is polluted from the founders intent. What you love to practice is restored outside. WHY DON’T YOU LEAVE THE DEGRADED ORGANIZATION AND GO FIND IT?”
You would THINK hard evidence backed by real data would work. BUT IT DOESN’T.
And what happens when people leave with the mindset of “returning to the truth as it was originally”?
If you go to Scientology-Cult.Com Steve Hall has a list titled “The Indie 500.” Where Independent Scientologists post their names. THERE ARE LESS THAN 200 LISTED.
Why? Because ONCE THEY ARE OUT people wake up at ESMB and other places.
The Buddhist parable about the burning house makes a LOT of sense.
Once they are out, the majority are staying out.
The BIG LIE is comparable to a wall. A couple of commenters on this article ran head first into that wall at full speed.
Sooner or later (or already beginning), OSA will have to send its clean-up crew to sweep the pieces under the rug as per usual.
OSA will always win because they are better organized. The history books won’t remember the individual protestors. The history books will only contain the inevitable persistence of the Church of Scientology into the future.
I don’t know if I’m being pessimistic or optimistic. Either way, I’m being realistic about the Church of Scientology.
Unfortunately Jonathan you are being overly pessimistic, yet what you are saying is spot on.
The Co$ has proven time and time, and time again that they are a resilient bunch of fuckers. they never back down, they never let go with out a fight, and are ALWAYS up for a fight. how many times has this group trampled on the human rights of others and laughed at the scorn and ridicule of the outside world (wogs)? to many to count. this latest salvo of bad PR is just that, bad PR.
unfortunately until the feds (U.S. Dept. of Justice ) get REALLY involved the Co$ will continue its reign of terror and greed. and as long as things are “status quo” Marty and his group of happy-n-free scilons will continue to enjoy a free and un-molested (by wogs), albeit tiny, existence.
BUT…if the pressure from the anonymous movement and the media continues, if it CONTINUES, who knows, we may actually reach the elusive “tipping point” that has been on the lips of critics and independent scilons for years………….pessimistic? yep….reality? you betcha.
I agree with Jonathon Barbera.
The critics will be forgotten and the Church will be remembered for their ability to win.
There are plenty of people who can bring the cult crashing down, but without adequate lawyers & protection it will never happen.
Many have stepped up to the plate, and the Church slams them with law suits and harassment and away they go.
If you’re a critic and not being taken to court, then you mustn’t pose a big enough worry to them.
Aaron says:
“If you’re a critic and not being taken to court, then you mustn’t pose a big enough worry to them.”
possibly i say, but i would like to think that, you are really clever and have been extremely sinister and covert with your criticism. therefor the cult can’t find you in order to take you to court. just saying ((*J*))
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Agreed Aaron. The Church of Scientology will surely always exist because of the money they have as well as the structures in our brain that allow for cultish memes to hack us.
THOSE STRUCTURES WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. And if you help one poor sucker out his own biological security flaws inherent in his human brain, 10 more are in line behind him wearing “Squirrel Buster” gimme caps chanting ….
“What are your crimes? …. What are your crimes? …”
I think ‘The big lie’ is that if Martyology thinks that everyone in the world has to have the ‘tech’ in order to clear the planet, then it should be FREE! He should be running a stress test table somewhere in the wasteland of Texas, and giving away books, auditing, everything! The fact that he is charging for it reveals that he is in it only for the money, and a little recognition on the side.
The BIG LIE is more basic to me. The idea of clearing the planet, ending drugs & crime, with a the sauna, vitamins, e-meter, and way-to-happiness pamphlet. While doing this, they’ve created a group of control freaks and liars.
If Marty had abandoned that lie and he would have felt adrift, and not had customers and a following. He did other things for a few years, and he didn’t like it.
The price factor will throttle this lie though, as too many people are pricing everything via the web. It is coming at 2 ends for CoS, incoming and outgoing. They can’t control either like they used to.
It is easy to assume that with the web active in the early 1990’s and nothing dramatic has happened with CoS in the way of their income collapsing, that they will always persist and win. I don’t see it that way. First of all, web use has increased exponentially since the 1990’s and the number of ex-members, and ex-members who are willing to speak out, is increasing. It’s a gradual thing.
Scientology has too many holes in it. Hubbard wrote too many nutty books. His life was a mess, and that will be more apparent to future would-be Scilons.
With other religions, transgressions by the creator, leaders, or members were almost forgotten, in a generation or two. The web really won’t let people forget.
People are going to be in and out faster, complaining about being used, hurt, or squeezed for money.
We’ve seen how Cruise can’t get very far, taking a more pro-active stance. He tried that and it back-fired. If the most famous Scilon on the planet, a very popular actor, can’t really get away with introducing the anti-psych message, who can?
Tom probably thought the whole world was ready to hear him speak about Ritalin, anti-depressants and the evil psychs.
But it turned out to be just like Scientology, appealing to only a tiny percentage of people, who are in a vulnerable situation.
Also, the miniaturization of technology. DM could get caught on tape beating someone, or at least audio. YOUTUBE is only 5 years old! That’s nothing. It’s growing.
No matter how good CoS’s commercials get it doesn’t matter, not when the truth is so accessible, and mystery USED to be their strongest draw.
The ways they used to control people are falling flatter. CoS’s most capable people in technology, are going to be leaving, to get jobs outside of the cult.
Justin Bieber was discovered via the web, and more actors, comics, writers etc. will find a way in that way too, and don’t need a celebrity cult’s influence.
Perhaps a united effort to maybe throw small, hideable audio recorders over the fence at Gold so disaffected prisoners of the cult can record ‘tender moments’ with cwazy widdle davy might be appropriate! I will have to work on that!
I’ve been calling myself an “Independent Scientologist” since 1996:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/d0e2f875f8d84e3d?hl=en
Since 1996, no one from Marty’s group has ever contacted me. (Well, one did ask me on facebook if I’d been getting auditing from any Free Zone auditors in particular…)
Bunkai wrote: “If you go to Scientology-Cult.Com Steve Hall has a list titled ‘The Indie 500.’ Where Independent Scientologists post their names. THERE ARE LESS THAN 200 LISTED.”
When there were less than 100 names on the list, I contacted Steve Hall. I asked if there were any qualifications to be included. He assured me I was qualified, so I invited him to include my name. He didn’t.
I wasn’t surprised. The first time I e-mailed him after he started his web site, it took him two months to respond.
You and Schwartz aren’t on the Steve Hall’s list. You should get on a list, in case Hubbard comes back in his spaceship, and wants to see a list, so he can put you in the RPF. Steve Hall/Tintoretto/Jesus has a lot on his mind.
Astrid, Schwarz and I are only two of very many ex-church Scientologists who are not on that list!
That’s the point I’m trying to make. These “Independent” Scientologists aren’t who they claim to be. They’re the new comers who have failed to assert their authority over the other ex-church Scientologists operating in the field. They were the ones in a condition of non-existence when they arrived. Instead of communicating with those already outside of the church, they outright dismissed the old-timers and pretended they were the first ones to figure out something wasn’t right in the Church of Scientology. Yet, when I tried to communicate what was wrong in the church before they arrived, they were secretly the same people (“ex-OSA”) who attacked me.
Last year I attempted to leave some comments on Minerva’s first anti-Marty blog. Instead of deleting them like the moderators on Marty’s blog, Minerva changed my comments to read differently. In one comment I clearly stated that Marty Rathbun was ~not~ the leader of the Independent Scientologists. Minerva changed the comment to read that he is the leader. Get it? Even OSA wants you to believe Marty Rathbun is the leader of the Independent Scientologists!
Are you familiar with the “Discuss Marty” facebook group? The only person who ever asked me to take it down was a Scientologist currently in the church…
The BIG LIE is what it is and it involves the people it does.
In 2007, someone called “Yarnosh” asked me on ars how to be an Independent Scientologist. (Remember, this is two years before Marty Rathbun’s arrival on the scene.)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/0f243b6aae7a1cf4?hl=en
I guess I see what you mean Jonathon, but M&M were trained and spent their whole lives in attack mode and you weren’t. You were doing Scientology mostly because you enjoyed it and they were doing it professionally, to clear the planet.
From the beginning of Marty’s blog, I sensed he was going to be caught in a trap of trying to sort out “independent” believers, according to whether they were independent because they didn’t fit in Hubbard’s straight jacket (like Capt. Bill, Mayo, Mimi Roger’s father) or whether they are blaming it totally on DM.
That’s why it is easier to ally yourself with human beings, rather than try to feel like you belong to anything, just because you believe in many things about Scientology.
You may be right about OSA wanting to position Marty as the leader of ALL the independents. It would be VERY threatening for active cult Scilons to get wind of the notion that there was this cloud of members drifting away, doing Scientology outside the cult, spending less money, and having more fun, because they don’t have to worry about giving huge donations or being forced higher on the bridge.
More, than that, these ex-members are able to communicate on the web, talk about what might be wrong, what can be done better, fantasize about their own definition of super powers, and they can’t do that in the cult. In the cult, a win is always about buying into the next level.
That is DM’s and the cult’s biggest problem. It is not just one person they can demonize, or dismiss, like Lisa M, Cooper, Behar, Marty, Mike, Haggis, or Mary Sue.
It’s the internet. It is people being able to communicate. It is about all ex-members being heard.
That said, as an individual, Marty may be hurting them where it hurts the most though — the pocketbook. Removing people like the Lugli family, and Karen de la Carreck, and other millionaires who were in for decades. That is hugely threatening to DM.
When you consider the Lugli family alone…the gossip that must have gone on in Italy about that.