Church member admits it ain’t all roses

One of the sites I follow regularly is, a blog run by Church of Scientology members specifically targeted at Marty Rathbun. It’s hugely entertaining stuff, and the comments section is filled with “me-too” replies that almost make Marty’s sheep look like free thinkers. For us, it’s an interesting glimpse into what Scientologists surround themselves with and how they convince themselves that all this bullshit is okay.

But over the last week, there have been some snippets in a couple of posts that are surprisingly and disturbingly honest. The first is an admission that things are far from perfect in the Church of Scientology.

These excerpts are from a post called I Want My Real Friends Back – Sig Interviews, a series of interviews with a Scientologist who supposedly left the Church, got auditing from Marty, and came back into the fold. At first I thought they were fictional, but the revelations in this latest post make me think this is a real person who is doing this as part of their “lower conditions”.

Here are some snippets of what “Sig” says:

“[Independent Scientologists] talk as though they have a right to judge. They are so outraged by things that COB or the church is supposed to have done.

“But the truth is they are not qualified to judge or to point a finger at all.

“In reality, actually, it is worse among the indies – much worse. There is far more out ethics, back stabbing, betrayal, natter and so on….

“I suppose you have to decide what the goals and purposes are that you want to see being achieved, and then go with the side that is going to achieve that, even if it is not perfect.”

This may sound like I’m grasping at straws – something I routinely accuse Marty of doing – but anyone who knows about Scientology knows that this is actually a pretty big deal. Saying things are “much worse” on the Indie side implies problems on the Church side, and “even if it’s not perfect” speaks for itself.

This sort of complaining is known in Scientology as “nattering,” and according to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, if you natter, it’s not because you are actually making a legitimate criticism of something that is really wrong. Nope – if you natter, the problem is you.

Hubbard named several contradictory causes of nattering in his writings. Here are a few:

1) Nattering is caused by missed withholds, i.e. something the Scientologist does not want to talk about but his auditor has not managed to harrangue out of him:

“What are these natterings, upsets, ARC breaks…? They are restimulated but missed or partially missed withholds… If the person is upset, somebody failed to find out what that person was sure they would find out. The only reason anyone has ever left Scientology is because people failed to find out about them.” HCOB 22 Febuary 1962

“A nattery pc has withholds… That’s real actual basic tech.” HCOB 12 June 1970

“In an area in which someone’s withholds have caused natter about management, there is a decay of confidence in the management.” HCOPL 6 Feb 1982

2) Overts (sins) in general:

“The Pro [auditor] would recognize by the pc’s natter, or lack of previous gain, that the pc had overts.” (HCOB 7 Sept 1964 Issue II)

“It could be that a person is nattering or feels critical, in which case the Ethics Officer or MAA [Master At Arms] could have the person write up his O/Ws [Overts and Withholds].” HCOB 2 March 1984R

3) Overts (sins) against another person:

“…If a pc is nattering about somebody the pc has overts
on that somebody.” HCOB 31 January 1970

(Get that? If you natter about Hubbard, you have sins against Hubbard. If you natter against Miscavige, or Marty Rathbun, or me, same deal. Makes you wonder about those time Hubbard bitched about Nixon*.)

4) Misunderstood or misdefined words:

“Course natter stems entirely from the students’ non-comprehension of words and data.” HCOPL 24 Sept 1964

“Every nattery or non-progressing student or pc is hung up in the above 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 cycle [a downward spiral caused by a misdefined word]. And every such student or pc has a misdefined word at the bottom of that pile.” HCOB 21 February 1966

There are more reasons and more quotes, but I think you get my point: If people complain, it’s not because there is something to complain about; the problem is something the complainer did.

So what do you think – is the problem that “Sig” has withholds, overts, and misdefined words?

Or are there really problems with Scientology and the Church, and “Sig” and her interviewer just let their guard down?


* From HCO PL 22 June 1974, TECH: “When one adopts false tech he will then wind up with confusion as false tech will not deliver a product. It delivers a confusion — like psychiatry or Nixon economics.” Hubbard also wrote an anti-Nixon diatribe in 1960, which he made into a policy (HCOB 24 April 1960, CONCERNING THE CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENCY). For the record, good for him.

9 responses to “Church member admits it ain’t all roses

  1. This sentence caught my attention “Sure there have been some get togethers and do’s, but even at those there is an undercurrent of “we are doing this and being happy and friendly because we have to be to support our cause, but we know really that this isn’t going to work out in the long run”. If it’s an accurate observation on the part of Sig then nobody needs to worry about the indies. They’re working their own way out of the cult mindset.

    • Jonathon Barbera

      I think it will work out for the “Independents”. They may never form a standard org with people posted on an org board, but they have already determined all of the “extras” are unnecessary. As long as people are leaving the church and looking for additional auditing outside, the “Independents” will always have new public.

      It might not work out for everyone. Some people will only be able to progress in Scientology within an organizational setting. Those people will have to wait for the church to reform. (I suppose if the church really did reform, the “Independents” would probably receive fewer public from them.)

  2. Yeah, if there isn’t a lid on the box most of the critters will get out.

  3. What is apparent with Marty is his desire to recruit. He has enough people now to go off and do Scientology to his hearts content.

    But he feels the need to keep stabbing at DM and the current Church. In reality, he could just walk away and let it go. I guess that is a hard task given that there are many ex’s out there and we are all to some extent involved in speaking out about the Church. Whether people hate us or like us – we all were hurt, and did things ourselves.

    It never seems to be a question to Scientologists why the only people that are declared and slagged off by the Church were it’s hardest working people – Ex-Sea Org.

    To any normal person that would raise a level of suspicion.

    If all the ex’s could just stick to the actions of the Church and put aside the disagreements over the cause (such as some people saying it is because the tech doesn’t work), they could get a lot done.

    Then again, I have seen some of the orgs here in the US and they look as empty as they could possibly get. I guess business isn’t booming.

    Still, it’s good to know where to find the battered wives – Marty’s joint! The sea Org had the motto “We come back” and Marty’s motto is “We’re dumb as dog shit and we’re back for more”.

    • It amuses me to no end that one of Marty’s most faithful followers is Jim Logan, this despite the fact that Marty physically took his wife away and brought her back to Scientology! Of course, I already wrote about what Hubbard said about Jim’s gay brother. I guess these guys are just gluttons for punishment.


  4. I m sorry, I meant to say, Poohfa! but I suppose Ooohfa ! displays the same decor and intent i was going for, thank-you.

  5. Good post. I learn something new and challenging
    on blogs I stumbleupon everyday. It will always be exciting to
    read through content from other authors and practice a little something from other web sites.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s