News from English Independents… or is it?

I wanted to share an excerpt from a speech given by an Independent Scientologist to other Indies about goings-on in East Grinstead, UK, where Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard had his home and headquarters at Saint Hill Manor:

“In the East Grinstead area, I would venture a guess that better than half of the Scientologists in that area are disaffected and staying away from the org, and at least a third are actually Independent right now. Many of the very biggest opinion leaders have done so… one doctor in particular, who has serviced the Scientology field for the last 8 or 10 years, resigned about a month ago and he sent his letter of resignation to his whole CF [Central Files, his client list], about 2,000 Scientologists. And that had an impact.

“This morning in East Grinstead there was a protest demo[nstraton] against practices such as disconnection… 60 Scientologists marched through the streets of East Grinstead. The press were informed beforehand and they were there taking their photographs. And then the whole delegation went to Saint Hill and submitted a presentation of Demand for Reform, and the media were right there, too….

“The Church organized a radio program for today, a live radio program, call-in, where they wanted to get certain messages out, particularly that would be anti-Independent. And they lined up their own people to phone in. This was a live program. Somehow, we happened to find out about this program, and we got on the lines, and 65% of the phone callers-in were Independents! And the questions they got hit with, they weren’t prepared for. So that went real well.”

Know when this was recorded?


Twenty-seven years ago.

Don’t take my word for it — you can download the original MP3 here. It’s the preamble to a speech given by David Mayo, then head of the Advanced Ability Center, about the dirty tricks being played against him by the organized Church, back when LRH was still alive. David and the AAC are the folks who were Independent before Independent was cool.

The point I wish to make is that the true history of Independent Scientology goes farther back than certain people would like you to realize. The movement of Scientologists away from the Church is nothing new. So why would Marty try to infer that it is? The answer may well lie (no pun intended) in a 1979 LRH policy called DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY ARE NEW:

“People who have been in Dianetics and Scientology for years see it as a way of life… They do not realize that Dianetics and Scientology are new news to the bulk of the world’s population. They do not realize that the oldest Dianetics or Scientology books are brand new books to the bulk of humanity! … So write and act like you have NEW news.” — LRH

What LRH missed is that saying something is new doesn’t make it new. It’s easy to see that Dianetics auditing is just repackaged psychotherapy, which is why Hubbard went to such extreme lengths to keep out people who understood that and keep those “in” from realizing it.

Likewise, it’s in Marty’s best interest to have the world believe his Independent movement is something new. I’ll be honest – even I was fooled, but the more I learn about David Mayo, the more I understand why Marty is so eager to vilify him and minimize his importance. More on that in my next blog entry.


16 responses to “News from English Independents… or is it?

  1. lurker(not the mostly)

    yeah, the mayo thing is pretty interesting… It looks like,when he broke with the church, he was basically ditching all the cultie stuff, and just going with the new age psychotherapy end of it… and it was KILLING the COS at the time….

    I can see something like a Mayo outfit (if it were allowed to stay in business) could actually survive (and in some areas thrive, hey Crystal therapy is hopping in some areas of the country)… But I wonder, can Martys brand of Scientology? I dont think so… He might be able to keep some of the already indoctrinated, but I don’t see him appealing to new people (which from watching a few things on Mayo, his center actually was attracting people who had never been in the cult)….
    Of course Mayo, what little I can see or know of him, seems to be a much gentler, kinder guy, who wasnt convinced everything that came out of LRHs mouth was gold… So he wasn’t stuck trying to defend the indefensible…
    Still a bunch of new age psychobabble, but it seemed relatively harmless… Still wouldnt have been something I would have been interested in..

    • I did my Flag training under Mayo and worked with him. Had the utmost respect for him at the time (and am sure Hubbard did too, as he wouldn’t have called in just anyone to audit him) and would still say I have respect for him. He was one of the people that was able to “think with the tech” which I know sounds like an oxymoron, but he wasn’t a robot and didn’t defend the indefensible – either in conversation that I had with him, nor in his actions – which is what made him so damn good. He also demonstrated himself to be a kind, gentle, loving soul.

      To me the agenda that Marty has feels 180 degrees different from whatever agenda Mayo had.

      • lurker(not the mostly)

        there is a lot of moonbeam new age “therapies” out there, that don’t rise to the level of a cult.. It struck me, that was what mayo was trying to do, and if it was, I really have no problem with it… My sister is into “crystal” therapy.. I don’t get it, but she can afford the dang things and they seem to make her happy.. I would never let someone audit me, but I won’t let anyone hypnotise me either…
        Your right though, Marty seems to have a much different agenda, especially with all his ‘squirrell’ talk, and no case gain and love of the disconnection policy… I dont know enough about Mayo to know whether he was whole hog into the dead alien cooties, but from the things I have been reading, it seems not… and from what he wrote and said in interviews, he has left scientology behind completely..

      • Dear Catfish, I hope my comment will find you.
        Here is a website I put together and I stated there why I did it.
        Please take a look at and let me know if you’d be interested to contribute to the website in a form of comments of article. I will be looking for your answer here, or for the comment on that website.
        Thank you!
        (sorry for the off-topic comm)

  2. Rob Lure & Hide

    As I see it Marty’s stint in the cult came to an end when he saw that the leader David Miscrabbage was not going to share the loot with anyone period .
    It’s much like the movie Goodfellas ,where Di Niro playing Jimmy whacked all the crew to keep the loot for himself.
    Marty studied the Godfather LRH closely to see how he could get a slice of the pie then bolted and started forming his own crew.
    There really is no honor among thieves!

    • RL&H I gotta say, and I’m not the only one bro “YOU NAILED IT” ….your comment here is absolute proof Marty nicks Cali’s blog for propaganda!! It is 3:35 am EST right now….check out Mahty’s latest post,coincidence??? hmm possibly…you be the judge!!!:


      • Hah! Good to know Marty is reading! I wonder what he’ll make of my next post…


      • Lure Ron & Hide

        johnny d
        Thanks and it sure looks like we struck a chord of truth that resonates here with that analogy .
        All I can say now is to bear in mind the scene from the godfather where Marlon brando tell Al Pacinno in the scene just before the godfather dies something like” The one who comes to you to set up a meeting to make peace is the traitor”.
        Just think of the church of harassment & intimidation implementing that stratedgy.
        Wow!I just got it by envisioning Mike Rinder and Mahrty exercising that specific manouver with a little dwarf yanking on their chains.
        Rosecrutionanism has an exercise about envisioning things and it is free.
        As an aside Rosecrutionanism is where the Hubfart stole material from called it “creative processing” and of course said it was his invention as usual. I don’t tout it but consider it as some fun one can have with this apsect of their( Rosecrutionan) beliefs and it cost nothin’.
        Question I have here is are Mike Rinder and Mahrty really free from a little dwarf yanking on their previously physical but now mental chains?
        Be sure to watch the next cartoon episode of church of harassment & intimidation with Mike Rinder and Mahrty playing the” harrassees’ and “intimidatees”.

  3. lurker(not the mostly)

    Jesse Prince just wrote on his blog again… he gives it to the Mand Ms…. but my favorite paragraph was this…

    “Admittedly, I have not always been the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to common sense so I realized it was what I’d experienced during those last four years that convinced me, Scientology really was a dead end road. At the time I realized Scientology made perfect sense until the end. When is the end? The end comes when Scientology has taken all that it could from it’s victims with their consent. The minute the Scientology victim ceases to be useful or no longer agrees their end with the subject is near. Soon they realized most of the subject never made sense in the real world in the first place.”

  4. You can see why Marty hates Mayo, their personality types are chalk and cheese. There’s no BS with Mayo – he seems pretty grounded and normal.

    Importantly, in interviews he gave to those writing about Scientology he was willing to list his concerns about Hubbard’s character and motivations.

  5. lurker(not the mostly)

    I have been really stuggling with this, because I feel that Scientology in pretty much any incarnation ends up being a way to seperate people from their money… but… Here is my dilema..

    A lot of the ‘ideas’ that are espoused in Scientology are also espoused elsewhere.. One of the ones I see the most is the “pulling it in”….. In some ways, pulling it in makes sense… Heck, there is the old saying, “Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.” , is older than Scientology. People do make choices, sometimes unconsiously that can “pull in” disaster, or good stuff too… I know that if I had married my first fiance, I would be in a much different and WORSE place than I am today…. Of course I dont believe that every good or bad thing that happens is “pulled in”, but then I dont believe in us having the power to move stuff with our minds, either…

    So when I think about Mayo, I think about the guy who seemed to be a good guy, who was genuinely trying to help people, but also the guy who helped Hubbard keep the trains running on his little freak show also… I can’t tell if he should be hated or hailed…. Of course so much of its hard to say, since he is Gagged and can’t really defend himself or explain his postions on the “tech” and the church these days…

    Marty and Mike love the whole idea of the COS they just don’t agree with who should be running the show…and to me, thats at the least, a callous disregard for peoples health and sanity and at worse… pretty evil…. (and I don’t call people evil, lightly)….

    • Lurker, “Pulling it in” goes beyond that. If you are driving down the road and a drunk driver plows into your car, Scientology believes that you “pulled that in” because of something evil you did – say, commenting on this blog. You deserved this terrible thing that happened to you because you did something bad – and in Scientology ethics, consorting with an SP like me (even an undeclared one – come on, Marty!) is bad.


      • lurker(not the mostly)

        I knew that Cali, and thats the part where “pulling it in” fails for me… There are the things you can control, and the things you can’t… I was trying (and very badly as usual) trying to explain how a lot of what scientology believes, is in other forms of thought…. Its just taken to a hugely twisted form in Scientology…

        Like the Suppressive person… In a way, it would be like the “toxic parent” or “person” that Modern pyschology talks about… But nowhere in modern therapy, and you supposed to ‘fair game’ a toxic person…. Disconnection, possibly, if what they do rises to the level of danger (in the case of a nephew who was doing and dealing drugs, he was not welcome in my home), but not being sued, lied, cheated and ruined utterly? Uhhhhh…. no…

    • Lure Ron & Hide

      Love your post!!! I would like to expound on your statement“Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.” by adding my own version
      Lie down with or go near a rabid dog named LRH and you will wake up with spiritual cooties beyond your imagination!

      • lurker(not the mostly)

        lol, the proof is really in the end product with old LRH… You either have a sad story to tell at the end, or your running around calling people squirrels…

        Its certainly not something I would want to emulate…

  6. Mayo, Hana E., Gerry Armstrong… it’s absurd how Marty gets off on holding these people as suspect, just because it was his job before he rose to be A-hole-General in the “church.”

    From wiki: “The Advanced Ability Center was established by Mayo after leaving Scientology in February 1983 – a time when most of Scientology’s upper and middle management was removed following the formation of the Religious Technology Center (RTC) and RTC head David Miscavige’s restructuring of the church. David Mayo had been L. Ron Hubbard’s own auditor. Mayo taught material from the upper thetan levels of the Scientology organization in the Advanced Ability Center. A division of the Advanced Ability Center was closed down again in 1984 under pressure from the main organization.”

    What’s the difference now? With the web, and open communication, Miscavige can’t shut Marty down, without risking shutting down the mother scam. He can send pizzas and the squirrel squad, but that’s just helping Marty’s cause.

    Even people who admired Hubbard, like Mimi Rogers’ father, admit that Hubbard got lost on a power trip in the last 10 years of his life. If Mayo wrote some of the upper level cuckoo anyway, you’d think it was only fitting that he go his own way after DM engineered (using Black Dianetics, LOL) the restructuring.

    The thing about the FZ, Martyology included, is that now, without the security checking, prison camps, being nagged for donations, and fear of SP declaration, members are free to go inactive when they want, try other things, or just float away from it, make some friends who never read Dianetics.

    FZ members, unless they are mentally ill, gradually feel it is something they are doing for themselves, not to “clear the planet,” but just because they like it. However, right now, they have this mission to bring DM down, which is a strong feature holding them together.

    Ex-members with their wits about them, and some money, like Haggis, will just find a good therapist, which is what many of them needed in the first place anyway.

    The mother cult may retain celebrities and other assorted fruit loops, but more of the long-standing members will get out, with some finding a half-way house in Martyology.

    I think the Haggis departure coupled with the Wright article, is the beginning of a cascading effect for the cult. Haggis was well known by all the actors in the cult. Haggis mentioned Marty. Fairman went to Marty. Any celebrity having the least issue with being nagged for money or whatever, may start looking now. The catalyst, or final straw, seems to be Tommy Davis showing up. I hope he remains cult spokescreature.

    Although DM made Shelly disappear — going on four years now — I think that DM will have a harder time making celebrities, former administrators and even former members just disappear. Because of the web, they just don’t fade into the woodwork like these used to.

    Even someone who was in the cult for a year, can make videos about their experience.

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