“Imagine” explained, sort of

Lurker posted a comment asking for a translation of Marty Rathbun’s latest blog post, Imagine. I figured I’d take a quick whack at it, and that my quick whack deserved its own blog entry. I may not have everything right, so I’d appreciate it if those of you with more experience in these matters would please, please, please help me out in the comments.

Quick translation: Imagine if Scientology worked the way it says it does.

Long version…

First, the “ownership” stuff – I’ll be honest, I have no idea what LRH is talking about. A Scientologist might order me to “clear my words” (look them up in a dictionary, and if that doesn’t work, look in a Scientology dictionary to see how LRH re-defined them), but knowing the definitions of “own” and “ownership,” it still makes little sense.

Now, to a Scientologist, that makes anything I say from this point forward invalid, because if I have a misunderstood word, I can’t understand the rest of what’s being said. If I WERE a Scientologist, I’d find a justification in lieu of true understanding, otherwise I wouldn’t be allowed to go on. Hubbard loved to create conundrums like this; it made for nice long (and expensive and profitable) lectures that keep people pondering and directed inwards, not outwards.


The concept of being “in session” basically means being totally, 100% focused on and devoted to the auditing session. It’s funny – Hubbard said “Absolutes are unobtainable” (Scientology 8-8008, 2007 ed, pages 14, 84, and 163), and yet he dealt in a lot of absolutes. Marty said “There is no such thing as ‘kinda in session’,” and he’s correct. You can be sitting in front of your auditor, e-meter cans in hand, hanging on every word of every question, and then a thought pops into your head and bam, you are “out of session.” Not just momentarily distracted; completely out of session.

Now, compare that to, say, Itzhak Perlman. I’m sure there’s been a time when he’s gone into a show preoccupied, or perhaps he’s been in the middle of a performance and some random thought creeps in – “My foot itches,” or “Gosh, that string is a wee bit out of tune,” or “I wish the timpani player would stop staring at my wife’s hooters.” But he doesn’t stop the concert. He doesn’t consider himself “out of performance.” He lets the thought pass and goes on, but the music keeps going.

It’s an interesting academic point, by the way – if we are distracted, are we still doing what we are doing? The problem is that in Scientology, it is just one of a thousand reasons to stay focused inward and ignore what’s happening outside the bubble of Scientology – a bubble that you at first only allow to envelop you during session, but you soon enough allow to envelop your entire life.

Tone 40 means being totally in command. “Do this now!” It’s an order. It’s how Scientologists are supposed to talk when they want something done. It’s about focusing and ignoring everything else (again, as Marty said, “Intention without reservation.”) Your wife is at home dying of cancer? Doesn’t matter. “Stuff those envelopes NOW!”

And the end of the post is all about how good Scientology would be if everyone had this sort of blind devotion.

The bottom line is that it’s all about devotion to the cause. Devotion to the cause is the MOST important thing.

How else will Scientology save mankind – or pay for David Miscavige’s private jet, or LRH’s desert compound, or Marty’s mortgage?


24 responses to ““Imagine” explained, sort of

  1. Oh yes Cali, the “devotion”, LRH wanted it, so does the dwarf ,but Marty, well Marty needs it. He must have the devotion of the handful of indies because without it – like you said – his mortgage DEPENDS on it. Not to mention his freakin ego.
    Understanding $cientology requires that one gives-up natural,real, bona fide RATIONAL thought. As apposed to imaginary,bogus, IRRATIONAL,feigned bullshit. LRH loaded up his mountains of volumes,books, lectures etc. with enough imaginary babble to to scare Walt Disney, Mark Twain and Edgar Allen Poe. But yet, the followers buy into ALL OF IT. Why ? well we know why, if they don’t the consequences are enormous. They will lose their blessed eternity. and be declared an SP and be hounded for the rest of their days by the cult’s security force. But the real driving force behind the belief is in all of us, we all want to believe that there is something out-there. Something greater and bigger than all of us. I know I want to believe that. I believe there is a “higher power” a “GOD” but you will never get me to swallow “incident II” or any other “space opera” garbage.
    But I so want “to believe”, I WANT to believe in UFO’s, I WANT to believe in the Loch Ness Monster, I WANT to believe in Ghosts and Bigfoot but I wont until I have PROOF. I think Aaron said it best (and I paraphrase) ” if just one scientologist gave a public example of * OT Abilities *, people would be knocking down the doors of every Org in the world with open checkbooks and bank accounts”. But it cant be done and it NEVER will be.
    But, you convincing a $cientologist of that is about as possible as them showing you OT powers. Because they consider themselves “special” and “enlightened” beings. If they could only see that they are as “special” as those “special” kids on the short bus….
    I could go on for ever but I hope i made my point.
    Back to BYU vs. Florida game.

  2. Sorry,

    I personnaly have nothing else to comment as the ”$cientology” Marty’s is trying to make else dream of – never existed to me, from 80′ till now , nor from their ‘,sacred LRH scriptures” nor I beleive it could be a wonderfulle world.

    To me..when I imagine..
    I only can see a Georges Orwell 1984 totalitarian system
    And all of my prayers goes to a deep wish that this ”system” would collapse and let thousands of being free of it.

    I still do not understand if Marty is lying or beleive his illusions\dellusion.

    It’s sad to seel all his followers bowing and tell him their admiration .
    I do not forget the is has been part of the takover and the dpreversion and degraded thing this ”tech” has been to thousands of people.


    When I imagine all the stuff being on LRH 100% policy and you instead of Miscavige
    I see the exact same thing.
    Blindness and isanity of brainswahed and ignorant followers of a cult.
    I pray to kepp being in what you call”a wog insane world”
    This world is of suffering AND of hapiness and joy, families, children, despair AND hope, war AND peace, hate AND love
    Your is only suffering and despair to the profit of the greed

    • > I still do not understand if Marty is lying or beleive his illusions\dellusion.

      I can’t tell either. I suspect it’s a bit of both.


  3. lurker(not the mostly)

    It was the “owning” stuff that caught my eye (in the midst of the charlie browns teacher going “wa, wa, wa”)…

    I kept thinking, “Isn’t he talking about slavery?” But so many things with scientology speak means almost the exact opposite of their english counterpart that I wasn’t sure…

    It definately sounded like a sales pitch to me, but I wasn’t sure if it was just auditing marty was selling, or auctioning off his wife..

  4. The ”owning ” concept is more of responsibility of an auditor.

    LRH wants the auditor taking ”full” reponsibility for ”his” preclear wich is not A preclair but HIS preclair.
    The preclair is assigned to ”you” as an auditor in The HGC and then become your preclair as you are totally full responsible of him and how he is going.
    If the preclair is doing bad – I can assure you the auditor will have a bad time.

    It’s more the ”state” and ”progres” that is owned instead of the person.

    It’s a good way to insure the auditor looks closely to ”his” preclear and do not loose him somewhere and then loosing business on the ”bridge”
    The auditor is also responsible that ”his” preclair wants to buy some more services, unless, it is considers something went wrong as a win should results in buying the next service.

    When $cientologists says ”in session” that mean the quality of communication wich is
    originating the comm
    Having a terminal 100% there (all attention) to receive it
    The terminal receive and duplicate it
    It is acknowledge
    The originator feels he has been totally understood

    The same thing you can experiment with a person , interested in your communication, listening with attention and says ”all right I got it” and you feel good.

    It’s only imho and the way I can translate what Marty is talking about.

  5. In Session: “Interested in my own case and willing to talk to the auditor” is a monoideaistic state, in other words, a hypnotic state or trance state.

    It is produced by applying the TRs to the PC.

    LRH’s main technical task was to train auditors in how to put pc’s into hypnotic states without telling auditors that this is what he was training them to do.

    Marty is hoping to keep that going.

  6. Oups

    Forgot long time ago this meaning.
    Now you tell – I remember

    In Session: “Interested in my own case and willing to talk to the auditor”

    And flying the ruds if not

    Thank’s 😉

  7. lurker(not the mostly)

    thanks guys… see, its that scio talk that would keep non crazy wogs out of the indies world…
    The thing that gets me, is from watching any auditing session, even I can see the hypnotic effect.. I can’t believe more people wouldnt be freaked out by being put into a suggestive state by someone who wants their money…

  8. I find this sort of approach by Marty to be a little scary – and for good reason.

    The sort of devotion he is asking people to have is precisely the core problem with Scientology. On one hand Marty tells you the take what you believe and leave the rest – as LRH said. And then on the other hand he is telling you to devote without question.

    This is what laid people up in the Sea Org for decades without their own lives.

    I think it is time to forget about Marty and allow him to take the followers that want to be with him and let it be. He factually is not making any dents in the Sea Org operations of any kind and is factually having the ex-crow concentrate on debating a moot point – “Is Scientology workable?”.

    This is all deviation from factual actions that destroy Church operations such as protests, court cases and TV work & Radio.

    While all this goes on, C of S strengthens it’s foothold in Asia as they prepare for a massive push in the East which will bring in more scios than in the USA.

    The international efforts against the Church have, and appear to always be peace-meal attacks that will not prevent the C of S from expansion – it just will not.

    There seems to be int he ex-community and even in so far as WWP to prevent central control of a well organized, structured long-term plan to actually stop the C of S and it is heartbreaking. Corporations and political lobbyists have shown us over the decades that without international coordinated attacks, that the attacks that are launched will be of average value.

    The individual efforts of people worldwide combined and streamlined into one proper channel would result in people having to do less, but tripling the results, easily.

    I recall one time in 2009 when I put feelers out there – I found more than 50 individuals doing websites to stop the church. After reviewing the content I found some was wrong, and the thousands of hours spent on “research” was already there in some form on the net, and the web sites did not hold appeal.

    the Church understands this, they do not provide the same information or campaigns to everyone. Their sale pitch to public, new scios, old scios, governments and business leaders is ALL very different and designed for different audiences.

    A politician visiting ESMB, Xenu or OC etc. etc. will have to wade through piles of information to get what they need to know – which is a bad thing. To date I have not seen one website (and this is from an informed opinion of a lobbyist I obtained) that would ever be considered worth reading by a politician because they have too much information and not the information that they need to see.

    As long as there is no International push with coordinated efforts, the C of S will continue to increase it’s membership. The USA is not an indication of where the C of S is at.

    People have to be reminded that the C of S a long time ago was nearly shutdown and they still came back to be the plague they are now – the Church will survive and they will cut deals in others countries to flourish.

    I was once told there was a secret website where in fact these plans did exist. I was allowed into the website and spoke with people on there. There was no international plan, there was no international plan reviewed by a PR firm or lawyer or serious businessman, just a bunch if ideas thrown around that could not be coordinated. Some had incorrectly assumed the Church would capitulate some central headed organization – nothing could be further from the truth and the Church is glad that this misconception exists
    because it does prevent centralized action which would shut them down.

    The Sea Org can be thwarted in 5 years with a correctly centralized plan that takes advantages of it’s weaknesses and reduces it’s strengths to weapons against themselves.

    Without a central operation that is also overseen by professionals it will never happen.

    The fight against the Church I can often compared to gorilla warfare, attacks here and there with large celebrations about the smallest thing – all the while the Church purchases huge properties, strengthens it’s legal position and continues to rocket expansion abroad.

    It does not have to be that way, but you would think it would be feasible to bring about 500-1000 people internationally together to form a group that would seriously do this – but only a handful see this as a good thing.

    When I out feelers out, I got 20-30 people only. That is not enough to make a real dent and it was disheartening.

    No one court case will do it, no one decision by any government will do it, but coordinated those government decisions could be domino’ed – but that has to be planned and coordinated years before it happens.

    Until then we will see more blogs, more information pumped into the internet that will never reach the desks of those people that actually make change – governments.

    Politicians are not interested in supporting fights lead by a rabble, and when they are contacted, this is usually the unprofessionalism that they are confronted with. To empower a politician many things have to be done a long time in advance and they have to be handed a war they can win – not one they have to figure out how to win. Politicians lead battles of opinion, they do not devise them – they pay people to do that.

    Senator Xenaphon on the eve of his attack against the Church was asking still the most fundamental of questions and clearly did not know who he was attacking and he could not win. He had no website, no booklet, no collection of docs that explained in full the situation or the evils that had taken place. Now, how is a man supposed to stand up and fight when he doesn’t even know what 95% of his enemy is about?

    The problem with the movement against the Church is that we have thousands of people that know the enemy, but they are not combining their information to do a standard analysis of HOW to actually destroy the Sea Org.

    I have heard good ideas and I have given good ideas. All pointless if we do not have an organization to spearhead the attack and pull it off.

    This is one reason why people get deflated with the movement – is it going somewhere or will it always be half-arsed and thus ineffective?

    I think it will always be half-arsed and be ineffective. In the SO we viewed attacks like this all the time and did dances around them. Watch and see the jump in Scientology abroad and watch it filter through to the Western Countries. It is happening now and it will increase.

    The Church are so far from being crippled it is clearly a sign that many long term people in the movement can not see what is going on because I have heard some stating things like “So are we there yet?”. That is the clear sign they do not know what Scientology is up to or capable of.

    Let us remember idiots do not make a multi-billion dollar cult stretching across the globe that despite all that has happened, is still recruiting, and still getting new members.



    “The auditor necessarily owns the pre-clear. He owns the pre-clear on a lessening basis until the pre-clear owns himself.” – LRH


    “Now, when I say imagine that it was in, I do not mean “sorta in”, “a lot in”, “a little in”, or “most of the time in”. I mean, in unconditionally.” – MR

    “I mean, unconditionally “willing to talk to the auditor” with no consideration present that there are any adverse ramifications possible for what one might say to the auditor.” – MR



  10. I find the indie field, as evidenced by Marty’s blog, really strange. They’re all happy and self-congratulatory about having escaped a box, and yet they’re still in a box and don’t know it. While Marty closes the lid…

    Someone posted a link to the video of John Lennon’s Imagine earlier. Lyrics: “No religion too”, “No heaven or hell to die for”, etc. Either irony-tastic, or epic fail.

  11. William Johnson

    I still can’t wrap my head around what Marty is really after? Please correct me if I am wrong, but he didn’t go far enough up the ‘bridge’ to audit everyone, right? He doesn’t have someone to come along behind him and make sure he is doinitrite, right? He doesn’t have all these guys folders to know what to do to them right? I mean can anybody buy an emeter on ebay and start auditing people? I have never been in the cult so I don’t know these things. Could ElRon have made him ‘super auditor for all lifetimes’ or something like that?

    Even someone like me who has read very little of the so-called ‘scriptures’ can see that he is ‘squirrelling’ what ElRon himself wrote. So, what’s the deal?

  12. So many keystrokes. So little result.

  13. William Johnson,

    You ask the same questions everyone (rational thinking adults) else asks……
    This is the very short comment/question you posted on Marty’s blog regarding his post “Imagine”;

    *****“Hubbard said “Absolutes are unobtainable” (Scientology 8-8008, 2007 ed, pages 14, 84, and 163)”

    “Now, when I say imagine that it was in, I do not mean “sorta in”, “a lot in”, “a little in”, or “most of the time in”. I mean, in unconditionally.”

    Something is off here, which is right, Marty or LRH? *******

    Well, William you received a few NASTY comments from both Marty and his crew, please sit on your hands now as I re-post Marty’s reply and a few of his “enlightened ” and “ethical” followers, and then I will show a quick comment from me that was redirected to the “waste basket” as usual with my comments…

    martyrathbun09 | March 24, 2011 at 9:47 pm | Reply
    Clear the words “unconditional” and “absolute.” Btw, didn’t Dave get the memo? This wave has gotten far too big to be affected by provocateurs.

    carol | March 24, 2011 at 9:55 pm | Reply
    William Johnson, the only thing off here is you.

    Sinar | March 24, 2011 at 10:26 pm | Reply
    Billy Jo,
    You better handle that smell that you brought in with you!

    Valkov | March 25, 2011 at 9:45 pm | Reply
    Possibly by jumping into the river right off the Tallahatchee bridge.

    *** okay now here is the comment/question from me that Marty thought was too INTERBULATING to actually post***;

    Carol & Sinar,
    Mr, Johnson was only asking a reasonable question, why so caustic ???

    **** Thats it, that little, tiny question from me had to be CENSORED by Marty, …why?why?…. when he lets his “ethical” and “enlightened” followers
    comments like the few above..through…..”jump off a bridge” really?? jeez Marty, you’re sick.
    I would love to some thoughts on this,
    Much Love…….

  14. “to hear some thoughts”

    sorry about that,,,,,i get flustered but GOD-DAMNIT marty fucking pisses me off…I mean jesus on a fucking surfboard, he is playing god and cant fucking see it, his head is so far up his own ass………yuuccckkkk, im gonna puke…

  15. Senator Xenophon did an exemplary job, and has my utmost respect and gratitude. It is a complex topic, and it takes quite a bit of research. I see no reason to point fingers.

  16. lurker(not the mostly)

    jesse prince came out with a new blog post..
    Very interesting..

  17. William Johnson

    Jesse’s blog is some pretty good reading, really puts into question what IF ANY creds Marty has to do auditing! A good read, although long. Apparently Marty was in charge of ‘dirty tricks’ and his own folders were destroyed to prevent the unwashed from seeing it…so there is no evidence that he has any training at all (except the so-called Black Dianetics).

  18. A Marty commenter brought up Jesse’s blog so I put a link to it in my reply. Looks like it was approved too.

    I wonder how many of Marty’s readers will follow the link.

  19. No surprises on Jesse’s blog.

    This stuff with Marty has been reported before – and again it will be forgotten about very quickly.

    The bottom line is people who are deluded will be mis-steered and little will change in the indi movement.

  20. Perhaps Marty would like to explain the real reason why DM chose the Ship for Marty to be in on 1994/1995. It had everything to do with the Subpoena’s that were out for Marty.

    And while I am at it, thanks to Greg Wilhere & Co for taking care of Con Sova.

  21. lurker(not the mostly)

    yeah, I don’t know how many minds Jesses blog will really change. At least amongst the martyrs…. Its possible he could sway a few of the fence sitters, who see Marty as a lesser evil, but I am not even sure of that…

    Since I was not around back in the day, I am finding out a lot of this stuff from Jesses blog for the first time, and its fascinating to me, and confirms what i already thought about MandM…. but then its the already indoctrinated ones, that are looking for their next guru that get drug into Martys net…

  22. Something from the internet we all may enjoy:
    Skeptic Pitied

    January 22, 2003 | ISSUE 39•02

    FAYETTEVILLE, AR—Craig Schaffner, 46, a Fayetteville-area computer consultant, has earned the pity of friends and acquaintances for his tragic reluctance to embrace the unverifiable, sources reported Monday.

    “I honestly feel sorry for the guy,” said neighbor Michael Eddy, 54, a born-again Christian. “To live in this world not believing in a higher power, doubting that Christ died for our sins—that’s such a sad, cynical way to live. I don’t know how he gets through his day.”
    Coworker Donald Cobb, who spends roughly 20 percent of his annual income on telephone psychics and tarot-card readings, similarly extended his compassion for Schaffner.

    “Craig is a really great guy,” Cobb said. “It’s just too bad he’s chosen to cut himself off from the world of the paranormal, restricting himself to the limited universe of what can be seen and heard and verified through empirical evidence.”

    Also feeling pity for Schaffner is his former girlfriend Aimee Brand, a holistic and homeopathic healer who earns a living selling tonics and medicines diluted to one molecule per gallon in the belief that the water “remembers” the curative properties of the medication.

    “Don’t get me wrong—logic and reason have their place,” Brand said. “But Craig fails to recognize the danger of going too far with medical common sense to the exclusion of alternative New Age remedies like chakra cleansing and energy-field realignment.”

    Eddy said he has tried repeatedly to pull Schaffner back from the precipice of lucidity.

    “I admit, science might be great for curing diseases, exploring space, cataloguing the natural phenomena of our world, saving endangered species, extending the human lifespan, and enriching the quality of that life,” Eddy said. “But at the end of the day, science has nothing to tell us about the human soul, and that’s a critical thing Craig is missing. I would hate for his soul to be lost forever because of a stubborn doubt over the actual existence and nature of that soul.”

    Gina Hitchens, a lifelong astrology devotee, blamed Schaffner’s lack of faith on an accident of birth.

    “Craig can’t entirely help himself, being a Gemini,” Hitchens said. “Geminis are always very skeptical and destined to feel pain throughout life as a result of their closed-mindedness. If you try to introduce Craig to anything even remotely made-up, he starts going off about ‘evidence this’ and ‘proof that.’ If only the poor man were open-minded enough to stop attacking everything with his brain and just once look into his heart, he’d find all the proof he needed. But, sadly, he’s unable to let even a little bit of imagination drive his core beliefs.”

    Perhaps the person who pities Schaffner most is his brother Frank, a practicing Scientologist since 1991.

    “It’s bad enough when someone has the ignorance to reject Dianetics in spite of its tremendous popularity,” Frank said. “But Craig isn’t even willing to try a free introductory course. Scientology has the potential to free humanity from the crippling yoke of common sense, unshackling billions from the chains of century after century of scientific precedent, and yet he still won’t give it a try.”

    “I realize that Craig seems very happy with his narrow little common-sense-based worldview,” Frank continued, “but when you think of all the widely embraced beliefs that are excluded by that way of thinking, you have to feel kind of sad.”

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