Marty, have you no shame?

I’ve been making an effort not to write headlines about Marty Rathbun, because it makes me sound too much like these guys (a pro-Church, anti-Marty site).

But in Marty’s most recent blog entry, More Truth Revealed, I read something that made me see red. It came right smack in the middle of yet another diatribe about how David Miscavige is screwing up Scientologists, and one day after a blog entry in which Marty said he can fix those screwed-up Scientologists (for a modest fee, I imagine). Here’s the sentence that set me off:

“The last folders I am aware of David Miscavige personally reviewing and C/Sing were those of Lisa McPherson shortly before her spin, psychotic break and untimely death.”

All I could think was: How dare you, Marty?

Seriously – how fucking dare you?

Need I remind you, Marty, that Lisa McPherson is dead because of LRH’s “technology” – the technology you believe in and push on your followers?

Need I remind you that you’ve repeatedly blamed Lisa’s death on Miscavige’s “mishandling” of Lisa’s “case” – not on the Introspection Rundown, in which LRH says that the way to cure a psychotic break is to lock someone in a room and not talk to them? Not even if they are fighting to leave? Not even if they are starving to death?

Need I remind you that you were part of Church management, you were Miscavige’s right-hand man, and you didn’t do ONE SINGLE FUCKING THING to save that poor girl’s life?

What were you doing for the two weeks when Lisa was locked in that room, trying to fight off her silent captors, slowly going crazy, her body slowly dying from lack of food and water?

What were you doing as Lisa made the transition from a beautiful, vibrant young woman to a scrawny, dehydrated, cockroach-bitten corpse?

What were you doing at the moment Lisa died, Marty? Sitting in your office, sucking down a Kool and reading LRH policy?

I know there are a lot of people who did a lot of terrible things in Scientology, people who left and feel a lot of remorse. And I feel sympathy for those people. I feel sorry that they carry so much guilt.

You told the St. Petersburg Times that right after Lisa’s death in 1995, you wanted to “follow your heart” and tell the Attorney General that the Church would “take responsibility.” To the unwary, that sounds like remorse.

Except that about a year later, you later ordered the shredding of the documents that could have forced Scientology to take legal responsibility.

And fifteen years later – fifteen years that you’ve spent starting a new life, falling in love, getting married, getting a house, and starting a business – fifteen years of life that Lisa McPherson was denied – here you are trying to use Lisa McPherson’s death as a pawn in your stupid battle for personal satisfaction. Here you are, using her as a sales tool to get people to pay you for auditing.

Have you no shame, Marty? What kind of a person are you?

Of course, I know what kind of a person you are. You’re the kind who fell under the spell of L. Ron Hubbard – the man who penned the Introspection Rundown, Lisa’s death warrant.

I know you believe in LRH’s bullshit, Marty. I know you look to LRH for the answers, just like Lisa did. I know you trust LRH, just like Lisa did. (I wonder if she figured out it was all a scam before she lost what remained of her grip on reality?)

I know it could have been you in that hotel room.

I know that I should pity you just as much as I pity poor Lisa McPherson. But when you write shit like this, I just can’t.


30 responses to “Marty, have you no shame?

  1. You are THE WOG. Thank you for saying that so clearly.

  2. William Johnson

    A couple of things that $cientology seems to remove from people is a sense of responsibility, and shame. As long as there is a policy letter from ‘source’ saying something is ok, then whether it’s murder, or kidnapping or whatever, then they will do it with impunity. Very sad, very pitiable, and the law will catch up with them soon enough.

  3. I have to disagree.

    Locking people up in basements is part of PTS Type Three and Marty enjoyed every minute of it – seeing her squirm, if she didn’t die, she would be right now on Martys blog telling him what an asshole he is for going against Scientology.

    It was Lisa’s fault – that’s the rule in Scientology. The Indis better front up and admit that Scientology was not to blame – Lisa just pulled it in.

  4. Nothing to add here, perfectly stated. Thank you.

  5. lurker(not the mostly)

    I didn’t catch that in his post the first time (i plead eyes glazing over from his sales pitch), I don’t know if he has shame or not, but it seems odd that none of his posters (or maybe the posts dont go through, I forget sometimes how hard he moderates his comments) seem to mention Lisa and what was done to her.
    They also, and marty sure as hell does, also seem to ignore what was done to Paulette Cooper (probably because DM wasn’t in power then)… If LRH is to be emulated by them, I really wonder what ethics and fair game are going to look like in a Marty cult.

  6. Aaron, a fair point.

    Lurker, I imagine they’ll look exactly like they do now in LRH’s cult.


  7. Cali,
    I really wish i could say what I want to, but that would require climbing way, way, WAY, UP….into you your rectum, and I don’t think YOU would care for that!!….ya know what I’m say’in?…I really don’t know how Marty ( The Bestest and most Coolest INDIE Person/Dude in the World ) does it, because he must have “what?” 65 super-dooper indie-coolcat,Bozzes,Friends of Ron,Truth-Seekers,
    Taters,Grasshoppers,Windhorses(WTF?),splogs,Cat-Daddy’s,Cowboy- Poets,FellowTravlers and Lady Mimms along with Karens #1,2 A &B, SummerWins, Huckleberrys, scilonschools and Old Schools, Toms, Tonys, Scotts and a MR.Ed, along with a SQUARE PEG, Han Solo , Sugar Plum-Fairy, Theta-buddy and SassyAnon’s…….as well as RainDogs and Rinders & Rathbuns and Hallelujah’s……shoved up his poop-shoot..

    I guess he has a right to be a little-bit grouchy..yes?
    anyway, my point is cali.THANKS for your awesome lit on the horrible subject of the CO$……… r da man!! so to speak

  8. Alex Braverman

    I’m inclined to agree with you on this matter.

  9. Caliwog,
    I have been reading your great posts for a while, but this is the first time I’ve felt compelled to post. You are so right. How anyone could not take responsibility for the murder of Lisa McPherson when they knew what was going on and did nothing is beyond me. Especially when the “Introspection Rundow” is a psychological treatment used in the 19th century for “hysterical” women. It was thought at that time that they were “overstimulated” by their environment, in other words they were dissatisfied with their lives. [Read The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman] The treatment was also used in the Eastern Pennsylvania Penitentiary but the silence and solitary confinement was shown to drive the prisoners insane. So they also stopped. I’ve heard from Marty in an interview that the reason that the treatment failed was because it was administered wrong and that he’s seen it work. That is the biggest lie I have ever heard. What other proof does anyone need that L.Ron Hubbard was a dangerous, psychotic individual trying to work out his own problems at the expense of others. Sorry for the rant, but thanks for the post.

  10. Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron conducted similar practices, but he was conducting brainwashing experiments for the CIA (which eventually became part of their torture manual).

  11. I was involved with several PTS Type III handlings which always included confining the person to quarters – or even taking them out to Farms.

    Just ask the Pollards of australia who kept Bettina Lauchlan locked up there for ages – Maggie Pearce, her husband Ken and the Senior C/S Shane Brokdorf did it – I was in security at the time and ran the daily reports via fax to and from the security office to the C/S. She escaped and we tracked her down and locked her up again.

    Why doesn’t someone ask Marty how many times HE ordered someone locked up against their will?

  12. I’ve also seen and participate into Interiorizastion rundown and Pab 6 administer to people havin psychotic break.

    When I realized what it was about and the results I then refused to be involved into this and worked to prevent theses breakdowns isntead and inform people to seek medical help .

    Mark is not telling the truth or he is realy brainsashed
    The handling of mental breakdown in $CN is really a hell.
    The person is realy locked, looked after form people not qualified, and confined to a bed , no eat and drink properly but forced to be feed and given viatmins wich she can feels as forces to take drugs and being kept against her will and is very restimulative.

    to me these are practice similar the the middle age.

    After we have seen the museum of psychiatry exposing the treatment to the vulnerable mentally instable
    I hope we would see one day the horror museum os $cientology to the vulnerable – children – ederly -sick people, mentally instable
    We wil lbe shocked to discover the Lisa MacPherson is not an exception as Mary wants people to beleive.


    “”Why doesn’t someone ask Marty how many times HE ordered someone locked up against their will?”

    Agree – would be interested to know, but I am sure that no one of his follower have been locked BY Marty…..this is something one does not forget ….I think Nancy Many talked about that in a video on you tube

    May be we could ask here:

    How many persons have been order BY MARTY RATHBUN to be locked ?????
    (No one never mentionned it..I think It might be of a releif to expose an abuser )

  13. Out of scn:

    While psychiatrists have done some bad things — Ewen Cameron is right up there — you know the Scientology “museum of psychiatry” is pretty inaccurate, right?

  14. Well,

    I could say I have personnaly witnessed horror of psychiatry.
    There is still some horror going on, with electroshocks, heavy drugs, isolation, etc (psychiatric institutions are really hell , even though they tend to be more human that in the middle age)

    They did not find way to cure – so – innefective.
    Just way to control (more or less) with drugs tha toften induce severe side effects.

    But $cientology that claimed to be against psychiatry for hurting people and deny human rights are not even better – worst in fact – because they take sain people and drive them insane – one way ticket to hell.

    So yes
    I hope to see the museum of the fool and liars about human rights

    We could make some ”anonymous video” about people on instrospection rundown

    Wog would be shocked – as weel as unaware scientologists – to see the LRH tech in action – compare to what Marty is saying.
    Saxton, as ethics terminal, knows about that.

    We can ask Saxton to telle us about what the ”mentally ill” person is asked , and who decide, to make her out of the ”oprison” of forced isolation against her will. What is asked to the person – what the person have to tell to get released –

    It’s unbeleivable. It’s one of the most insane piece of the insane tech

  15. Dear Caliwog,
    I just found about your blog from posting on Jeff Hawkin’s blog.
    So I thought I would drop in and say Hi.
    I’ve only been on Marty’s blog a few times, so I can’t speak authoritatively. But I concur with your insight that the Independent Movement, and Marty specifically, is trying to set up a competing (but very similar) group based upon the same (very strange) principles used by Hubbard/DM in the CofS.
    The approach is: you set up a “reality” that serves your ends, cherry pick facts that fit that reality, then “promote the hell out of it”.
    In this case, the “story” is: Hubbard was an angel, and (somehow) his creation (church) was usurped by no-good henchmen who have warped Hubbard’s good teachings. And the Independents will come to the rescue.
    Hmmm . . that doesn’t really hold water.
    David Miscavige isn’t doing anything that Hubbard didn’t do. (There is even an LRH tape where Ron talks about himself smacking around a student who said something Hubbard didn’t like.)
    If someone looks at anything strange in Scientology, it traces back to Hubbard as the source.
    Hubbard was, among other things, an escape artist. He knew when to bug out, and leave someone else to deal with cleaning up the mess.
    On the Lisa McPherson incident, again, I can’t speak authoritatively. But, I think Hubbard’s approach bears mention: Hubbard would get an idea of how something might work, he would sketch it out, then he would release it as a final solution that was time tested and could not be questioned and would always work if followed exactly. Then he would see what happened. Problem is, it didn’t always work. Problem #2 is: Hubbard had to be always right (even when he reversed himself). So, if the solution didn’t work, you couldn’t change/stop it. And if someone got burned, well, that was an acceptable loss.
    Carry on,

  16. @outofscn

    >Mark is not telling the truth or he is realy brainsashed

    Or both.

    BTW, I concur with Special Frog: Psychiatry is not what Scientologists make it out to be. One of the things that stunned me about talking to Scientologists was their wacky ideas about mental health. I remember one person telling me what Ritalin did to a person, and it was instantly obvious she’d never seen someone on Ritalin. (I have. When it’s properly prescribed, they seem normal.) Another one told me schools could drug kids without parent’s consent. Untrue, at least around here – the nurse can’t even give a kid an aspirin. Most of what Scientologists believe about mental health is false — even about electroshock therapy, which sounds nasty and scary, but according to people who have had it, it works. Read up on Carrie Fisher.

    What’s sad is that our society has attached such a stigma to mental health, and Scientology takes advantage of that. I’ve had psychotherapy (actually, if you’ve had Dianetic auditing, so have you!). I was even on antidepressants for a period, and you know what? They worked. And to get them, I had to go to (shudder) a PSYCHIATRIST. He didn’t stick ice picks in my brain, he didn’t try to lock me away, he simply talked to me and wrote me a prescription. This was just after a divorce — and suddenly, the idea that the world would be a better place if I killed myself was gone from my head, and I was able to get on with my life. When I had my life squared away, I went off the meds, and I was the same ol’ Caliwog as before the whole incident. If it wasn’t for the psych and the drugs, I might not be here to be such a thorn in Marty and Miscavige’s sides. Which, when you think about it, is good reason for their anti-psychiatry stance!

    @ FiatLux:

    Very happy to have you, and good points all.


  17. You have personally witnessed the “horror of Psychiarty”? Please explain in detail.

    You sound about as well informed as a goat. I doubt you could explain the medical breakthroughs psychiatry is responsibile for, could you?

    Still getting your education from the C of S no doubt.

    Funny that Psychiatry actually can sometimes cure things with electric shocks to the brain – (research it, you goat), and Scientology uses electrical current and achieves nothing.

    Do you have any idea what Psychiatry lead to? Do you have any idea why there was psychiatric abuse in the 50’s?

    Let me guess, you are still one of these amazing dorks that thinks Psychs are on the wholetrack doing all the damage, huh?

  18. And, I doubt you know about any other drug other than Prozac. There are many drugs for very specific purposes that have a lot of benefits.

  19. lurker(not the mostly)

    Now Aaron, lets not be mean…lol… I was just going to post (but in a much nicer way, because I am such a nice person) some of the not so horrors of pscyhiatry..

    Electo shock therapy is a perfect example of a therapy that looks horrific (and its early application was) but it DOES serve a very good function in deeply depressed individuals…. Someone who has talked publically about her battle with bipolar is Carrie Fisher (Princes Leia), she talks about how she has tried just about every drug therapy and the one thing that has helped her is electroshock. They now put you under, so you don’t jerk around (which is part of what drove the antis crazy)… I have a personal friend who has suffered from such a deep depression that she goes almost catatonic, that began getting the therapy a few years ago, and she is now able to have a job, and a life…

    In a lot of ways, the drug therapies (which is truly the only thing that work on chemically depressed people) are in their infancy. Its hard to know just what will help… I (at the ripe old age of 46) was diagnosed with ADD(don’t have the HD part of it, thank god) and have winter depression(light therapy and excercise help)…. I could never understand why I was so damn tired after coming home from work, or why tasks that made me have to do more than one thing at a time would stymie me…..

    I started taking Concerta(a timed release form of Ritalin) and I can now do things I never could before, don’t freakin tell me that its evil, it has allowed me to juggle motherhood, and 2 different careers without curling up in a ball , or limiting what I do so that I don’t shut down….. I , in my 40s, finally don’t feel stupid, or lazy(ADD people tend to space off or shut down when we get overwhelmed)…. I only wish I had known earlier in my life what the problem was.. (I figured it out when my daughter was diagnosed with ADD, and I realized you could say all the same things about me)…

    I try my best to first decide if I can handle something without medication (like I said, light therapy and excercise, and I control my diabetes completely through diet ) but I have no problem with when those things don’t help to use a drug therapy to help….

    Horrors of Pscyhiatry? I don’t subscribe to it, at least not now… Look, anything can be abused, it also can be a literal life preserver….

  20. To answer this question in detail would reveal too much about me.

    Let’s say that , from being very young I was closely in visual contact , sensitive contacts and closely listening to conversations about what was going on in a large reputated psychiatric .

    I’ve seen people , who was having electroschock, having to take heavy drugs, I whow some who tolfd me about the result of electrochocs, another one , I could see had Lobotomy , because of a depression resulting from an accident.

    I’ve see more people that you would see in your life that has been put in mental institution and been given false disagnostic and drugs and electrochocs because they had no parent. Orpheans.

    This does not comes from my background in Scn – Saxton,
    it comes frome what I witnessed year after years as a child , and I have to admit that I never saw a happy person there.

    If you think that these practices are no longer used – wrong – it is still used.

    $cn taught me where we can go from our blindness –
    To be arware of practices that are hurting from $cn is also to be aware from practice that hurt human beings from ”part of the psychiatry tech” as well as some part of our worl of capitalism – that hurts the poorests.

    Concerning the Ritalin – some psychiatrists and doctors are exposing the dammages of these grugs wich are similar to amphetamins
    ”MPH possesses structural similarities to amphetamine and its pharmacological effects are more closely related to those of cocaine ”

    In my country , as some others, the number of prescribtions a year is completely awsome
    They are now conducting studies on youth addicted to drugs the same category and it seems to show that children on ritalin are suceptible to become drugs addictive later.
    Should you agree or not with me on the subjet- studies are giong on and the results will show the results of ritalin.

    I am not talking from a background of $cn but from a background of a persone that did studies psychology and psychopathology and worked with children having problems coming from disfonctional families.

    So Aaron,

    there is not only $cn that goes wrong in this world, and if a person sees – from experience- hurting practices form other systems – doesn’t mean her POV is from $cn. Each situation has to be analysed seperately.

    Ron has been wised to find this button of psychiatry – has this practiced had hurt people in the past – he knew he touched a button.

    And this doesn’t mean that psychiatrist are evil – there is some other therapies related to psy counselling that are of a help.
    But heavy drugs – isolation – deprivation of dignity , electroshocks are not a cure, nor they are in $cientology for mental breakdown. They are practice to make confortable guardians of these people.

    Here in my country, we have to constantly fight to insure that dignity of mentally ill people put in institution are respected. Their rights are still violated by the ”care” givers – but it tend to get better , very slowly though – but some psychiatrists are pionners with non invasive or destructive practices of treating people .

    Some people have a very good experiences with psychiatry as it helped them, but some other are still terrified with some practices.

    I do not aggre with hurting people
    Should it be with in $cientology
    In radical Islamism
    In christians evangelic (gays stuff and justice over children)
    In communism
    In capitalism
    In war

    I promote respect of human dignity in any way in any form.
    So I do not promote $cn nor promote psychiatry abuses (I am aware of or are facts)

  21. here can be foud a resume of a psyhiatrist wich do not agree with the use of Ritalin and affirmations about it’s safety and what can be found later on children put on this drug

    If you would see a child or youth on ”withdraw” rebound effects – it’s of desperation.

    Ther difference in the case is that the one who is having the children quiet and to obey , and making a lot of money is not LRH.

    (yes there might be some ”wins” on there might be some ”wins” with $cn..we’ll see later on , on a long term basis the factual results on a population sample)

  22. lurker(not the mostly)

    Like any drug, Ritalin can be abused, it can also be overprescribed…. My daughter is on Concerta (which is timed released so you dont get the big swings up and down), she uses it only when she has school,or has a project that requires her to focus.

    Ritalin,is a form of speed, except in people with ADD, it doesnt effect us in the same way speed does. I can sleep with it, it doesnt make me jittery, all it does is allow me to stay on task. Look, I understand that some people have been drugged to the gills, but let me tell you, the difference in myself and my daughter is like night and day… If I forget to take my pill, it just means I am a bit more spacey that day, I have never had rebounds or withdrawals from it. Often when I go on vacation I don’t bother to take it, and my daughter rarely bothers to take it when she is off for the summer from school… I can only speak from personal experience, but for me, its made it possible for me to function at a level I wasn’t able to before.. It has helped my daughter manage to keep her grades up, even when she is doing advanced and college level work. She has aproblem of blocking out noise and is easily distracted, which is pretty much daily life in High Schools in the US these days…

  23. I have to chime in in defense of Ritalin too. It’s a highly misunderstood drug, and the fact that we went through a time period when ADD/ADHD was the catch-all for kids problems doesn’t help matters.

    I’ve seen Ritalin wrongly prescribed and it doesn’t have any overly horrible consequences that I have ever seen.

    But rightly prescribed, it’s a miracle drug. I know this because I was on it – not as a child, but as an adult. Before my depression, I was diagnosed with adult ADD. My therapist suggested trying drugs. I was reluctant but did. And it’s a miracle. The benefits people claim from Clear have nothing on Ritalin.

    I didn’t feel any different. I didn’t slur my words. I wasn’t stoned or spacey. Ritalin simply relaxed the impulsive urges I had. When someone talked, I no longer felt the need to interrupt them every 5 seconds and make some point. I could listen and absorb. And I didn’t feel the need to try to do everything at once – I could clean my stove and not worry that the counters weren’t clean yet. Fantastic stuff.

    I went off Ritalin because I had some physical side effects – my brain reacted correctly but my body didn’t. This was at the outset of a difficult time in my life with lots of stress. I probably could go back on Ritalin now, but I don’t need to – I learned the difference between ADD behavior and “normal” behavior, and now can better separate.

    To sum up: Ritalin didn’t change me; it allowed me to be the me that I wanted to be. And it gave me the tools to do better in life. (Now I’m talking like a Scientologist!) I don’t take meds now, but I would totally be open to them if needed. I do credit my ability to do well in life with the meds. Everything worked *exactly* like the “psychs” said it would.


    I respect your viewpoints but I think they are outdated. I hope you won’t be offended when I say that when you talk about psychiatry, you talk like a Scientologist. People will have bad experiences. I know someone who was molested by a medical doctor. But that doesn’t mean that all of medicine is bad. Psychiatry and psychology have come a long way in the last 100 years, and a long way in just the last 30 years. What Hubbard portrayed 40-50 years ago wasn’t even accurate back then. I won’t say you have to learn, but I will suggest that you be open to other viewpoints.


  24. lurker(not the mostly)

    Ritalin allows me to sit at a desk for 40 hours and get my taxes done in a timely manner so my accountant doesnt give me the stink eye!

    I have always in the past done more manual labor types of work (I was a tiler till a few years ago, I am just getting too old for it now)… My businesses always suffered because while I could do the physical ends of my jobs (I also have several rental properties and do most of the rehab on them), I couldn’t make myself sit down and do the paperwork… On days that I am gardening, or painting, I don’t bother to take it, but I am glad I have it on bill paying days, or when too many things are going on at the same time..

  25. I understand both of your explanations about makinf the mind more quiet to be able to accomplish tasks and get a normal life.

    I have an agitated mind too, a busy mental and difficulties to be still or keep attention. My solution was tai-chi and meditation to learn to do nothing or be relax.
    I do not make any judgement on people who take ”psych drugs” . The only thing I know is that any human being is trying to heal his suffering with any means he\she finds approprate or of an help.

    $cientologist also find that $cientology are helping them – some says that it saves their life. Most of them find that you have misconceptions of what it is. (I have the viewpoint that it is dangerous and dammageable organisation) but I understand that people in have another appreciation.

    Concerning my viewpoint, it’s a coincidence that it looks like it comes from scientology – because it’s from pure personnal observations – studies, working experiences.

    If one day you could walk in a mental institution – meet every persons, talk to them, see what they are given, may be you’ll see my viewpoint.

    It’s like talkin about $cientology given in a class IV org – and $scientology within Sea Org.

    Public often are not aware of anything about cruelty, abuses, slavery we expose. They are aware of the ”good stuff” they know about study tech, communication course, some auditing that brought them releif etc.
    But to get the total scene of it we have to dig an know about the complete situation of how every human being is treated.
    A psychiatric consultation in an office is something – being treated in an psychiatric institution is something else,

    My last observations were made 6 months ago from one of the largest institution of the world.
    The danger of Ritalin is presently under investigations and clinical scientific studies. Results cannot be denied as if they are of scientific observations and compilation.
    The same goes with some type of antidepressants

    Some are now subject to attention as , over years, reported of causing severe depressions. It’s fact reported.

    Hormmonal therapies that have been given to woman to protect them against cancer have now proven to be causing cancer. It’s proven from 10 years clinical study.
    I took these medication , but I do not deny facts found about it , even though it made me feel better at that time.

    Event though I have been long tima ago in $cientology I do not deny facts about it dangerousity. I do not deny facts that it have been very harmfull to some people no matter if some like Kristie Alley or Tom Cruise are convinced that it saved their lives and make them better.

    Even though I am also christian, I do not deny the fact that some priests abused a lot of children.

    My point is about facts more than opinions.

    But..if you find that it’s outdated, no problem.
    I get and acknowledge the fact that it made you having a better life.

    Do you see that we all have the same pattern
    What is good to us is good
    What seems bad to us is bad…

    To Marty
    Introspection rundown is the proper thing
    To us, it’s dangerous
    To Marty the ritalin is dangerous (unless he is secretly having another view than the COS)
    To you it’s a good thing

  26. Caliwog

    Do you thing Dr Peter Breggin – psychiatrist – is also outdated and talk like a $cientologist?

    At least, we might consider he is competent an aware of some of the psychiatry abuses

    ” In America involuntary adults are being shocked despite the best efforts of psychiatric reformers (Oaks, 2009). In Australia psychiatrists have taken shock treatment to a new level of barbarity by shocking 55 toddlers age four and younger in Victoria (Hale, 2009). ”


    Will you react as a $cientologist and deny???? ;D

    I am teasing 😉
    even though it’s a serious issue dealing with life -dignity – and quality of life

    (when I have been sea org recruiter in a mission, long time ago, I was conducting interviews and have been shocked to see how many people have been given electro shocks against their will as weel as heavy psychiatrics drugs.

    Barbarism is barbarism, whatever forms and appearances it takes.

    I hope we will see the cleaning of any fanatism and insanity from cults as well as cruelty and barbarism from any psychiatric practive ever performed.

  27. Outofscn, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they compare electroshock therapy to the electric shock used to stun animals before killing them. That’s like saying that burning down a house and building a campfire are equally bad, because they both involve starting a fire.

    Tell me this: If a four-year-old’s heart stops, is it wrong to use a defibrillator on him? After all, you’re shocking him with 1,500 volts — just like those poor animals at the slaughterhouse.

    ECT is one of those things that can be made to sound scary — just like ritalin or antidepressants. Do more research, and you’ll find people who will tell you that ECT works. And just as I hope people would get their information about antidepressants from people who have used them, I prefer to get my info about ECT from people who have experienced it (just as I do with Scientology! :)) and not from the people who make a living selling books and testifying against it in product liability cases.


  28. Anonymous, y'all

    Outofscn, I wish you could meet and listen to a friend of mine who has suffered from chronic clinical depression. She’d tell you in a second that modern electroshock therapy saved her life by allowing her to get a foothold and start climbing out of what felt to her like a bottomless pit. She says that if not for that she’d have continued attempting suicide and eventually succeeded. I saw her in both states and you know what? I believe her.

    Then there’s the kid I’ve known since age eight who simply couldn’t focus on anything long enough to complete it. This child loved to learn, but without the gift of Ritalin? He bounced from one point to another like a yo-yo. I spent long stretches of time with him both on Ritalin and off it, and I saw for myself how much it eased his condition. He’s grown into young adulthood now and he’d tell you the same.

    Caliwog, lurker(not the mostly) and others have similar stories. Why do you, and Scientology, insist on invalidating these people’s personal experiences? Obviously Scientology fights modern psychiatry because it feels threatened, and thus sets itself up in opposition. One of the real benefits of being out should be that now you can consider and weigh ALL the evidence, and I hope you will.

  29. Anonymous, y'all

    I should add that I think Scientology preys on the mentally unstable far more than psychiatry ever could. And Narconon is a transparent ploy to prey on addicted people desperate to get clean – and it does so by selling the huge lie that saunas and vitamins will take away their desire to use. Now that’s some real predation right there!

  30. I was there, at Flag land base, when Lisa died. I stayed in a cabana near hers. I was there doing my L10. i didn’t notice anything strange during my stay, but i found out a year later and that became my ticket out from the cult. It is still very creepy to know that i lived a few meters from Lisa when she was locked up and dying. Thats the reason i never liked Marty.
    Thank’s Caliwog for all your articles!

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