Jim Logan, this one’s for you.
Marty posted his own response to the excellent New Yorker Magazine article. The first comment, posted by Marty himself, is a commercial for his auditing services, but a little further down the page was something that caught my eye – this moving comment from Jim Logan about the death of his brother, a victim of AIDS. Reading it, one can understand how Scientology gives comfort to the bereaved; like many religions, Scientology says that death enables the spirit to be freed from the body’s infirmaries.
(A quick primer on death: Scientology believes in reincarnation – specifically that death occurs when spirit (“Thetan”) leaves the body, returns to an interstellar “implant station” for a new round of brainwashing, and then attaches to another body just before birth. Once you become an Operating Thetan, you can drop your old body and pick out a new one at will.)
Jim said that his brother asked if he would have to be gay in his next life, and that at his brother’s funeral, several family members asked about Scientology’s view on homosexuality.
“I told them, sincerely, my own understanding,” writes Jim, “that there is no stance on this in the subject other than any person obsessed, heterosexually, or any other sexually, and ill at ease on the area, is subject to the influence of things that can be understood and they can be happier in their lives if they find they aren’t.”
Got that? According to Jim, Scientology takes no stand on homosexuality, except that people will be happier if they aren’t obsessed with sex.
This shows that Scientologists (like any other humans) only see what they want to see.
So, Jim, if you’re reading, I’d like to show you what Scientology’s stance on homosexuality actually is.
To this day, Dianetics – the book that you, Jim, described to Paul Haggis as an owner’s manual to the mind – is very clear on the subject, saying that homosexuality is a perversion, and perversion is dangerous. Here’s Hubbard:
“The sexual pervert (and by this term Dianetics, to be brief, includes any and all forms of deviation in Dynamic Two such as homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc…) is actually quite ill physically… the pervert is always a very ill person… he is… far from normal and… extremely dangerous to society.” — LRH, DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH
Hubbard goes on to say that such perversion is the result of engrams (bad memories), and implies that, as such, it can be cured with Dianetics.
Some Hubbard apologists have dismissed this viewpoint on homosexuality as typical of the time Dianetics was written (1950), but the verbiage I quoted appears in my 2002 paperback printing of Dianetics (page 152) as well as the 2007 version available online in PDF form (page 125).
In the 2007 edition of Handbook for Preclears, LRH says:
“Homosexuality is about 1.1 on the Tone Scale.” — LRH
1.1 is Covert Hostility, about which LRH says:
“The person may claim to love others and to have the good of others as his foremost interest. Yet at the same moment, he works (unconsciously or otherwise) to injure or destroy the lives and reputations of people and to also destroy property.” — LRH, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL
Calling someone “1.1” is about the worst insult a Scientologist can hurl. Marty and his flock often accuse Church leader David Miscavige of being 1.1, and the Church-going Marty h8rs say the same thing about him and Mike Rinder.
You got that, Jim? Hubbard called your brother a 1.1. In print, no less.
One of the questions to be asked on the Johannesburg Security Check (HCO PL 7 April 1961) – and this is from the 1961 version of the policy written by Hubbard – is “Have you ever practiced Homosexuality?” To put that in context, the questions just before and immediately following ask if the subject has “raped anyone,” “committed adultery,” “had intercourse with a member of your family,” “been sexually unfaithful,” “consistently made a practice of sexual perversion,” “slept with a member of a race of another colour,” “bombed anything” and “murdered anyone”.
In HCO Bulletin 7 September 1971, PROGRAMMING CASES BACKWARDS, Hubbard cited some examples he allegedly saw of Scientology not being properly applied, with incorrect results that he liked to “a gardener digging holes with the lawn mower and cutting grass with a spade.” Among them:
“After 200 or more hours of no change in his personality graph (Oxford Capacity Analysis) the [subject] came up with the withhold that he was a homosexual and also that he did not know what ‘Scientology’ meant. About 2 years of auditing had been wasted.” — LRH
So, Jim, now you know some more of what Hubbard and Scientology say about homosexuality. I’d hardly call it “no stance.” But don’t take my word for it. What’s true for you is true, right? I’ve included the policy references so you can look them up yourself.
Are you willing to look, Jim?
Incidentally, I have several friends who are HIV positive, and all are living normal, healthy lives. It’s hard to believe that just 15 years ago, an AIDS diagnosis was pretty much a guaranteed death sentence. We have many people to thank for this, including dedicated members of the pharmaceutical industry – a group that Scientologists vehemently oppose.
For those who are willing to look, I recommend the Wikipedia article LGBT Topics and Scientology.
Wonderful post, Cali. Thanks!
As an X (who was well versed in tech and policy), I can vouch that homosexuality was addressed as something that needed to be handled/changed. And, no I am not talking about counselling to deal with the various life situations which one might encounter as gay. The fact of being gay was indeed considered not good – 1.1, at best. As you know, 1.1 is a position on a tone scale – and, auditing “will” bring a person up to a higher/better tone.
Homosexual . Was not/is not something that one could be , speak freely of and just carry on with, within scientology. You know, carry on like it wasn’t a situation. Nope – if you were/are homosexual, that is a big elephant in the room situation and one that is always trying to be addressed and changed – even if not directly.
And death – that too was not a fuzzy-wuzzy thing. More so, treated as dev-t (developed traffic – extranious, interference, interruption) because dealing with the dead body, possible funeral, WOG/family reaction is just taking you away from the important thing – scientology. So what they dropped their meat body, they will get another… probably, maybe…whatever. And, a good scientologist doesn’t have sadness, grief or other MIS-emotion over death.
Another telling point in the Jim Logan comment was when he was talking to his brother about being gay and next life CHOICES. Now, I am all about being responsible for the choices one makes. (One of my issues with OT 3, but that is another story). However, I don’t think that each one of us is
God and I don’t think it’s all about choice.
Apparently, even while his brother was dying, Jim was making his brother wrong for choosing gay this lifetime. How very, very sad! I honestly don’t think Jim even sees the make-wrong in this. Plus it’s like on one hand he is saying there is no-stance and other the other hand saying choose differently next time. I am sure his brother has the ability to and has made the wiser choice. Good God, Jim – maybe it wasn’t a choice! But, that consideration isn’t within a scientologist.
Apologies as I may have mis-spoke and thus been too hard on Jim. He says he told his brother to choose what he wanted next life.
homos were crucified by Scientology when I was there – they weren’t just disliked, they were hated.
The Scios comment about whether or not his brother would be a homo next lifetime shows how dumb Scios are. It has everything to do with your bodies make-up and almost little to do with choice.
this is why I feel sorry for family members of Scios – they all cope the stupidity and judgments form some very uniformed people.
You got it Caliwog with the proper refferences…exactly on ”source”
You might be an excellent Inspector General RTC.
There is nothing else to look for about ”homosexuality” within scientology and from the ”religious” erspective or LRH and the ”parisionners”
You can be sure that you will be handle fast with ethics to cease your perverted behavior! We have allknown some ”gay” that have grone through the ecthics for this.
And the, you are regarded as a degraded perverted being from the others.
Long time scientolgoist that deny it, are denying the truth, or have close their eyes and mins about that fact.
Doesn’t it remember you an otheer huge organisations that also consider gay as degraded beings ?????
* I would like to point you that within this category of perverted beings on 1.1 on the tone scale , you also find ”ILL PEOPLE”
So , if you remember I ever warned people to not fall sick or have cancer within scientology as they will find themself alone!
You can read it ..this is long..but very memorable of how slaves that fall sick are considered and a chance that some sea org memeber still have a sens of dignity
This has benn reported by an anonymous ex-Sea Erg and is psoted on Anonymoux WWP
”Uwe Stuckenbrock. He arrived in the
RPF here in PAC around 2001, but I believe he was on the RPF in Happy Valley
before he came here. He is diagnosed with MS, Multiple Sclerosis, a disease
that from what I understand (from having looked it up in the encyclopedia)
there is no known cure for.
Over the last 3 years, I have watched him
getting worse and worse, though it seems that he is getting some of
attention and care. When he arrived he had a hard time walking by himself,
and this has deteriorated to the point of needing full time around the clock
assistance. He always has one or two other RPFers caring for him, as at this
point he cannot even make it to the bathroom by himself. He cannot walk at
all now and he has to be taken around in a wheel chair. What I don’t
understand is that although he is being treated with a lot of natural foods
and juices and vitamins and assists he’s getting worse and worse. He does go
to the local hospital sometimes with two people escorting him. He’s getting
checkups at LA County Hospital or somewhere, where the church is getting
free service on Medicare, because we RPFers simply don’t have any money for
any medical bills. Not long ago, we had to prepare a separate room for him
on the 2nd floor in the West wing, next to the stairwell towards Catalina
Street. He had been in the hospital and in critical condition. When he came
back he needed a cleaner, more private environment to recover. We spent
several days gutting out a little closed off room (where the other guy was
living that I’m going to tell you about, Mike Eves). The space was filthy
and outrageously dusty, like it hadn’t been cleaned for months. We repainted
the entire room, put up new curtains, put in a new carpet, new cabinets,
etc. Uwe was living in a little curtained off space in a room with about 50
other guys.(the room I told you about earlier, with the bunks crammed in and
up to the ceiling.) It was decided that Uwe’s condition was more critical
than Mike’s, so we were ordered to switch their places!! Mike was recovering
from a very critical operation for cancer, and HAD ONE LUNG REMOVED! Having
watched this scene going on for years, it is obvious to me that THESE TWO
GUYS WILL NEVER MAKE IT OUT OF THE RPF ALIVE! It’s technically impossible,
as you have to “make someone else better” i.e. your twin, in order to
graduate. These guys don’t even have twins and are just fighting to stay
alive. Come on! Uwe cannot even get up to go to the bathroom. What in hell
is he doing in the RPF?? He cannot be getting enough professional care and
attention and it’s INHUMAN to watch what is going on. All the other RPFers
are probably also outraged, but are suppressing their own feelings, in the
hope of not missing their own chance to get out of here. I’m actually
wondering how long these guys will survive and why they are not granted some
forgiveness for whatever they were assigned to the RPF for. Human decency
would be to sign them in to a proper nursing home to recover or at least die
in peace. The one theory that I have is this: Uwe Stuckenbrock was the
International Security Chief at Hemet. O’boy! What would happen if he had
the opportunity to let the world know what is going on up there or the
security issues that exist all over the planet. I’m sure that he’s kept in
the RPF so won’t be able to leak any data out. When he arrived on the RPF he
was at the caselevel of OT III and from what I heard, don’t know if this is
true, but his MS turned on while he was auditing on this level. So what has
been done over the last 3 years to “handle” this? He completed OT III, was
audited through OT IV and has been getting sessions on OT V for at least one
year – I guess in the hope that he’d be getting better, but he’s NOT
IMPROVING! He is getting worse!
Concerning the ”perversion” of being gay , you probably heard huyndreds of Time stories about the Dear Leador that reads part of PC folder or Sec Check (including TOm Cruise apparently) and humiliate people in front ot the base Staff with the details. Then he forces everyone to confess the he is a ”faggot” or Debbie Cokke that she il a Lesbian and that other people (Miscadroide) yelling names and insults…
The are ”fuc….” obsess about any ”sex” issue as Ron was.
He is a video , from Twin Peaks secret base, where they are concern that ANGRYGAY POPE is a gay…a faggit they called.
I myself witness a gay scientologist tha was crying of bein told that he was 1″1 and perverted being even thougs he mentionned never have done something to any child but just having love some other men without doing perverted sex….poor guy..I have always been shamed of that.
Homosexuality is considered as something the shoud be cured by ethics and auditing. No way to accept it a a state.
I am pretty much sure that people watching this video will really see that the insanity and ”psuchosis” is realy the sexual orientation of the protester.
Another example of the common sense ot Church of $ and the Sea Org that are working there to help the planet, with TOm Cruise, to get better… lol
i just cannot go back to that blog, but did you catch jim logan talking about hanging out with his brother after he had dropped his body and doing something like walking around with his disincarnate thetan reading cigarette labels or something equally insane?
I do not know about Jim Logan wioth his brother nor would comment to not offense him
but I can assure you that there is plenty – thousands of OT’s stories and OT’s phenoma of slave , endoctrined people ,
who were really good guy with dood life and a lot of good judgement
but now being only a shadow of what they were…
So their OT’S story…bof…
I get my own spiritual experiences and I always keep it for me..as it is personnal and not to impress or enjoy! The more a person is spiritually enlighten and aware the more this person ressemble a common person, not too much talking and not impressing…really…we could be surprise of who we could fin sleeping on a bench in a park!
A scn will not buy them a cofee nor share a little breakfast with them..
it’s a crime in scientolgoy
REWARDING DOWNSTATS MAKE THEM CRIMINALS
And you are driven to ecthics…and having less OT phenomas as your less excited in doing ethics cycles. lol
@qoihdflkajh: Yeah. I tried not to LOL as the guy obviously misses his brother and it’s a sad story. I tried…. but I failed.
Yep, as I was reading Jim’s account of lousing his brother, I too was feeling all gooshy and weepy for Jim….Until I came to “that” paragraph.
I had to read it twice, just to be sure, and then for some reason I didn’t really for sorry for old Jim anymore.
Sounds like Jim’s brother didn’t stand a chance.
Jim was always evaluating and degrading him, perhaps, if he loved Jim so much, the idea of loosing himself sounded better.
Jim was a terrible brother, totally misguided by Scientology. Sadly Jim thinks he will get another chance in another like. No he won’t, he screwed up big time.
THE IDIOTS AT ESMB.
ESMB is full of Scios, and bad parents to boot. This is the heading of a branc new member introduction:
Im a scn kid, I live in CA, and I am on staff. However, I am not sure about scn. What I am sure about is that staff isnt for me, so I want to get out. The problem is Im not sure I am okay with my parents and friends disconnecting, as I know they will have to do if I blow. However, Im not sure if I say I want to do a routing form that it will happen. I feel like they wont let me leave if I say I want to. I am not a minor. Advice or opinions?
An Uncertain Kid “”
What was the stupid advice offered by ESMBers??? Here we go:
“”Hiya. Don’t rush it, take your time and listen to people’s (different) advice and decide what suits YOU. Don’t get locked away in the RPF or shipped overseas, just don’t settle for any of that crap.””
The next mind blowing comment:
“”Everything you need to know is here: http://exscientologykids.com/ . . . run, kid, run. “”
The final (and third) crazy answer to the kid was some stupid guy rattling off his story and THEN telling the kid to “read other stories to get an idea of what your in for”.
Recommendations to seek professional counceling from an expert: ZERO.
Number of books that deal with the subject recommended: ZERO
Phone Numbers provided to people (wogs that are sane and experts in cults)in L.A. that could meet and help this guy : ZERO
This is the sort of shit you see on ESMB – people coming out with questions, and they offer garbage as advice. It is no wonder Marty wins hands down over people leaving Scientology and going somewhere – ESMB is the pop-psychology center for the ex where they get more insane. It just never occurs to ESMB that they are not the world experts (because their members are so sane), and like Marty, why go anywhere else when they are so “brilliant” and “well-adjusted”.
The kid comes out of the closet and this is the best ESMB can do. Lame, seriously lame. It is worse than advice.
I always found it remarkable that Hubbard followers excuse him for being a “product of his time” about such issues as homosexuality, science and smoking, yet the man could hop in his time machine and go back four quadrillion years just like that.
I was just watching Star Trek on T.V. and I thought of my time in the Sea Org. Seriously, although if anybody posts I watch Star Trek, I will deny it outright.
I remember the first doubts I had about Scientology while I was in the Sea Org, looking back, I often wonder how it is that Scientologists manage to take the obvious, and put it aside. This is worth noting because we see people leaving Scientology in it’s proper form and joining the ranks of the FZ and Martys consortium, and they must encounter the same questions.
To readers, I imagine anyone who spent time at NASA and then returned to a third world country would see it fit to share perhaps technologicial advancements with those people to make their lot in life easier. The first doubt I had in Scientology related to this.
I was in the SO and posed the question to a senior member that if LRH had been around for Trillions of years – and that other SO members had perfect recall of the timetrack, it would follow logically that their recall would include technological advancements. Why then, had not a single Scientologist taken any of these advancements to the people of Earth?
The answer I received defied logic but within the confines of policy, fitted well. The answer was that Earth was not ready for it, and that in fact there were many technological advancements including spaceships and the like and that these plans were housed at Int and would only be released when Earth was ready for it. For answering back with an obvious critical response of “That makes no sense, if we had that technology we could become the most powerful company on the planet and afford to spread Scientology instantly to every corner”. The result was a KR, my crime was discussing past life.
Another doubt that surfaced was another obvious one. If people were capable of being exterior, then why was it a requirement for them to infiltrate groups if they could remote view?
I would later be told these arguments were childish, but in fact they are not – they are very rational and logical and only someone with something embarrassing to hie would say otherwise.
Scientologists who continue on their course of Scientology services are always told and informed that the reason they can do none of these things is due to the fact that their case level is insufficient.
When I think about Marty’s independents and other FZers that are off with the fairies, I find it bold and rude that they would somehow demand DM or any other group show rational behavior. Marty’s attempts to make it all about the abuses and not speak of the logical problems of Scientology is quite childish – and the real hallmark of a cult leader.
Scientology has always been about obtaining perceptions that are superior to the general population. Studies have clearly shown that while most humans are created equal, their ability to use their minds and their brains is another matter.
A failure to use your perceptions to their fullest extent is a failure if you consider that you already have these perceptions that are unused, while trying to obtain further ones outside the realms of possibility. This is where the intelligence of Scientologists can correctly be challenged, and this includes Marty.
If one was capable of utilizing their hearing, speech, touch, taste, smell and ability to reason (which in it’s finest form can lead one to making accurate predictions in the relative future or far future – witness experts in he fields of Geothermal activity or techtonic plates, or even doctors on the brain etc.).
The reason why Scientologists never figure out how to think is because they believe that in no way could a rational human being without past life or whole track recall, or a person with engrams be capable of such great feats of reason.
And yet, it is completely the reverse.
Despite the numerous offers made to Scientologists to display their non-existent abilities, not a single one will take up the offer.
Scios are entitled to have faith of fancy – who isn’t. But promising these and then charging massive sums of money is unforgivable.
The difference between those that stay in Scientology and those that leave is that we were told the cowards leave. In reality, it is the brave who are willing to doubt themselves and find real truth, and those that remain are scared, in fear and ignorant. Those that leave are the real brave ones – and I do not mean leave the Church, I mean leave Scientology fully.
LOL, that’s funny Aaron. So, Earth was ready for ClearSound, the ShamWow-branded microfiber towel, and the candy-apple-red Mark XXX e-meter, but other things are pending, because they are so advanced. Maybe that’s what the astronaut training equipment is really for at the Stupor Powerz building… got to get them trained before Capt. Cruise and crew can take off for Venus, and introduce LRH tech to billions of Venusians.
It’ll be hard for them to top the Golden Age of Tech and the new Basics editions. Is the world ready for the Superpower Rundown? I’m ready, to laugh.
It is important for former insiders to have a holistic view like Aaron, because it was that type of reasoning that was just enough carrot to be dangling, which kept people staying on, whether it was to get a super power, clear the planet, or have their gayness disappear.
Or like Paul Haggis, go all the way up the bridge, just in case there was something to it. For him, it was too much of an ego-blow to think it was a crock, even when OTIII screamed “crock.”
Haggis got one thing out of it, which pretty much all Sea Org members don’t — a fantastic career, through the Hollywood club aspect of it.
Marty pretty much made no sense to me at all from Day 1 of his blog. Is he a con-man? Is his brain re-wired? I really don’t know. Presently though, he draws a lot of people out of the cult, because people who have spent so many years or so much money, cannot face all the facts at once.
I believe you have to be true to yourself, as Aaron and others have, if only for your own integrity, after so many years of being scammed.
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Your argument is severely out of context. Gay people ARE 1.1 by the very fact they are behaving outwardly differently to what they ARE. Man thinks he’s a women. Women thinks she’s a man. That is a mental illness. You have just bought into and being a robot mouthpiece for the whole gay agenda. And it’s insidious. Exactly fits the definition of 1.1. Note, before you bother… I am not a “Scientologist.” But their definition is pretty good.