I’m *still* still here…

Hi, guys – appreciate the comments and emails and that you miss me! I’m still taking care of some real-life stuff. Nothing bad has happened. No visits from OSA, no threats, no attempt to shudder me into silence. I haven’t had some change of heart and decided to support Scientology in any form. (God forbid!) It’s simply a matter of having the time to do this right. Keeping up with Scientology and writing good posts – particularly my favorite kind, the ones that use LRH’s own words to show that Scientology is BS – takes a lot of time. And I’ve always been one for quality over quantity. (Just ask Mrs. Caliwog! [rimshot]) So I’ve just got to keep Caliwog on hold a little longer, probably till the New Year, when I have time to do things right. Meantime, keep posting, keep thinking, and keep telling the truth, and no that I am just fine. I appreciate your support, and in the words of Tom Cruise, “I do care so very, very, very much!”

ML,
Caliwog

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53 responses to “I’m *still* still here…

  1. Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you’re fine.

    I filled the vacuum of your absence by starting my own blog:
    http://jonathonbarbera.wordpress.com/

    ARC,
    — Jonathon

  2. LOL Jonathon.

    Caliwog, I thought perhaps you were just speechless…. as in – words fail… πŸ˜‰

    Have a real, wonderful, safe Holiday.

  3. Hurry back, and Merry Christmas!

  4. I posted a new article you all could enjoy. (Feedback is welcome.)

    The Flawed Logic of Marty Rathbun and David Miscavige

    http://jonathonbarbera.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/the-flawed-logic-of-marty-rathbun-and-david-miscavige/

  5. Welcome back.

  6. Happy New Year Caliwog may this year be just as sucessful cracking open the cult as this last year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. jonathon, your blog is marked private, so I would have to log in to see it.. Did you mean it that way? No worries if you did…

  8. I noticed a very interesting comment on ESMB – it was from Paul Schofield talking about his “beingness” in Scientology. It was followed up by a comment from another ESMBer who too, experienced the same conflict when leaving Scientology.

    I think this is very unhealthy and it is nothing more than pop-psychology, and here is why:

    1. The people concerned are attempting to explain to people that the “good” beingness they had was themselves and the “bad” beingness was false and artificial and created by Scientology.

    This is of course, false. The reason it is false is that you can not implant into anyone a “beingness”. The reality is that their actions and their persona came from within themselves. The reason why it surfaced needs to be addressed by professional councelling because it is not s matter of “recognizing” it, that does not resolve it or solve how the person will “do it again”.

    I noted that the same process used in OTIII and OT VII is to get a person to a ridiculous state whereby they think all the bad feelings they have and all the bad “persons” they are or have been are nothing more than other thetans attached to them. In reading their comments on ESMB, I felt this si what they were doing – but instead of thetans, it was “beingness”. Using Scientology to resolve what went wrong in Scientology results in more going wrong.

    They need professional help and I have noticed that no one on ESMB ever recommends people to get councelling – instead they are all “professionals” and teach their new found pop-psychology on each other.

    One thing they all took away from Scientology and still have not given up is to get educated, and seek real professional help. Each one is too proud to seek REAL help and they think also that as with Scientology, the answer lies in their mind. Well it doesn’t. And the sooner they realize this the better.

    Schooter will not get any better. Now he is running around along with others thinking “My beingness that was bad was from Scientology or the Sea Org pushing me or doing…” Flunk… it was them, it was their personality and it was not anything else.

    If this were true, then are they saying it is possible to assume the identity of a mass murderer and then at a later date after hundreds of killings to simply sit there and go “Oh, that was Hitler, not me…” Flunk. There was a reason why Scooter acted like he did, and when he finds out the reason why, he will never act like that again. Nothing to do with “Beingness”. His use of Scientology to sort himself out of what gave him problems…Scientology! – is the typical action of ex-Scios who refuse to get educated and usually run off to other spiritual thoughts processes – anything but professional help and real education – and everyone else on ESMB seems to be in agreement that it is OK to remain ignorant.

    I guess that is why they remain on ESMB, because anywhere else in the world, in a real environment, with real educated professionals, it would never be tolerated such balderdash solutions to their mental problems.

    For God’s sake, they believed in Space Aliens; multiple thetans; and a slew of other ridiculous things and somehow…they are mentally perfectly OK as long as they are no longer in the Church – ugh, get help guys.

  9. Flawed logic of Marty Rathbun?

    There was no logic in the first place. No joke. None. Evaluation on it is not required because int he first instance the starting point for Marty Rathbun was absurdity.

    Concentrate on the Church and bringing them down, people lie Marty Rathbun will have their nutjobs that can not eat anything else but bull, and are well beyond help.

    Save the reasonably sane ones that have not yet fallen into the church to get screwed up more.

  10. Happy New Year Caliwog. Please hurry back as you are missed!

  11. Happy New year my friend.

  12. I am very angry at Marty Rathbun.

    How dare he lie to Scientologists. They have been victims of the Church, and now he is preying upon them. I saw his latest post about an Investigation pgm – it is not the first.

    He refuses to post the actual copies of the programs and when he is asked for them he dares ot accuse the people asking as being OSA Ops. It is sick.

    I wrote lots of Ethics Orders and Prgrmas and I KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE and how they are written, and he does not have them – he is making them up from Memory.

    It is wrong wrong wrong. From one deception to another.

    I get angry about about it because I know the people in his camp have gone there to get the right info and they are being bloodly lied to.

    Marty, you are a total sham and it is no wonder you have to censor – you are full of lies.

    I challenge you to get straight with the movement against Scientology and openly confront critiscism you deserve.

    I lied to people against the movement because I personally did things wrong and was embarrased, but you, asshole are lying to them to trick them, make them paranoid and to give them false answers about the Church, DM and whats going on in mgmt.

    There is a big difference. I never lied about what went on the Church, never, not once. But you are.BS pgms against Tory, now this latest one form you.

    I, know these pgms existed, but the ones you post are not actually them – they are vague recollections from Mike Rinder and others. You were out fo the loop after 1995 and you display this clearly.

    It is obvious you intend to deceive, and you are decieing people that have already been deceived. Shame on you. And frankly, when they find out, I hope you get shut down.

    All you are after is retiring on the donations and efforts of others to struggle to keep their faith alive and to lie to them if need be.

    You are a dishonorable piece of shit and the smart ones out here that were deep in the S.O know it. Do not think for a minute we do not know you are lying through your teeth.

    I do not know what is worse Marty, that DM did a number on you, or that somewhere is your deranged head, you now think it is OK to lie to others.

    Not Scientology, not the SO, not DM made you do that. There is something fundamentally wrong with you Marty. You are a bum.

  13. Hello Mr. Saxton: I see a lot of missemotions, thats great. While reading I remembered a quote by LRH. “The thing youΒ΄re not able to communicate to , you must fight” (DN 55) . This applies to you, to marty ,to me, to governments, to media and and and and. I propose you start to admire all BS ongoing in your environment which is under your influence, on the internet and on the planet, then we will win (solution). (If you want). ARC

  14. ooooooooohhhhhhhhhbuddy sidewinder this is what u just said….blah blah blah , words that already have there own meanings….blah blah blah bullshit, made up by a crazy evil drugged up science fiction writer…and and and and your gullable and niave to beleive this nonsense…….sigh……… i really do feel better ….cali i miss you, you keep me grounded and well…. nice…….

  15. Ratbun and Rinbun are com man to the max. I speak to them once in a while and they love double teaming u if you express an 180 to their fixed ideas. Arron’s bla is pretty spot on. I recently spoke to one of their cronies Haydn Pain James. Meet this guy, he’s a shit ass. He mentioned to me that Rinbun’s girl just was in the hospital. Anyone know why? Probably bitch slapping her. Someone earlier told me that Ratbun was auditing her a month or so ago. I guess she must have an a nervous breakdown after his auditing. Let’s call spade a spade, Ratbun and Rinbun (clone) are manipulators and always have been. I hate seeing them gettinng away with it and yet they still do. He threw me off trying to post on his flog. He’s all for freedom of speak! Bullshit!

  16. ohbuddy,
    I love your biting and sarcastic comments. Give me more πŸ™‚

  17. Ah, sidewinder that quote from LRH is balderdash.

    You do not fight those you can not communicate with.

    I can communicate with any entity I like – that has never been a problem of mine – is it yours Sidewinder, have you been unable to communicate with someone or something…I think there is a course for that. Why would anyone believe you would fight someone you could not communicate with… hey, I think I am going to fight a deaf guy… oh I know how about retarded people – “that’s not what LRH meant” but hey pal, you know what they say (LRH) about interpretation….tisk tisk tisk.

    Oh wait a minuet the worlds greatest communicator who told you you must fight those you can not communicate with told you the government is evil, the media is crap (but is OK to use them to advertise) AMA and a trillion other groups – I guess he had a lot of people he could not communicate with, huh? I guess he wasn’t a great communicator!!! Either that or he just made this silly quote up without ever thinking about it – sort of like when he rambles on about the world being 74 Quadrillion years old and Aleins on Venus up to 20,000 years ago implanting us (see History of man). Or when he says he was a race car driver on a planet and went through the barrier and killed lots of people to see if anyone was actually behind the barrier. Yeah, I know lots of famous race car drivers that go to racetracks in stadiums when there are NO CROWDS – God, do you even process the bullshit that came our of this man’s mouth, or actually think about it??? You know, the same guy that recollects 74 Quadrillon years and could not even invent a computer, a digital watch or a microwave? Or even Velcro…

    It is easy to be angry with something – so what? That doesn’t make me angry, it made me angry at that person or thing – it doesn’t consume me. And if it does, I guess there are always opiates πŸ™‚ You see, sane people can sanely handle a feeling towards a certain thing or topic and settle it. Insane people believe in constant tone levels – sort of like those who think you kind of got to be the same way about everything or you’re PTS.

    LRH made that quote probably because he couldn’t communicate with real businessmen, those associated with real medical practice, those who understood mental health, and of course, his family and most of all – sane people. It is no wonder he declared so many people and had so few friends when he died, kind of ironic that the only real friends he had left were those that had never actually met him and fell in love with his false ideas – he himself was not a pleasant man.

    Per LRH, you are an SP, a person not to be trusted, a liar and a 2.5 percenter who should be eliminated from the face of the Earth. You know, the same guy who said “we can make the insane, sane” and then banned insane people from studying Scientology. LOL.

    Tell me sidewinder, how si that delusional world you live in doing for yah mate? Happy? If you are then good, sincerely. But leave your LRH were it belongs… up the butt hole with the rest of my shit. πŸ™‚

    $100 says you have never studied the mind, the brain, human evolution, psychiatry, psychology, human behavior, medical theories, genetics – but you think you are an expert on all of them cause LRH said something about it, right? I bt your the type of guy who studied “All about Radiation” and think you know it all, yet you wouldn’t even be able to tell me the wavelength of green light, or the half life of a certain Isotope, the electron shells of various atoms and the energy they hold, or even something as elementary as who discovered x-Rays, right? Go Wiki it…quickly… I bet you could not even give me the calculation for energy of a certain amount of matter, could you?

    While I am ringing your tail, how about “A History of Man”. I bet you think you’re an expert, right? Can you tell em the difference between Homo Erectus and Homo Sapien Sapien? Could you tell me the origins of Language or counting? Could you even tell me something as elementary as why men like sex in the morning? Or mybe even something even simpler as why I can draw you a picture with two objects, one that is longer than the other, but your brain will think the other is longer – and it is no optical illusion, but because it is the way your brain processes images as set out by evolution of your brain?

    Do not try to debate with sane people or those that are educated. You’re out of your league, and it is embarrassing when a Scientologist opens his mouth to speak. That is why Scios have no part in the Sciences, fields that involve the mechanics of keeping civilization going. The best Scios can do, is earn money and “act”. Real celebs are scientists, researchers, scholars and the like – a foreign subject to you and your kind my friend.

    You are Homo Novus – a fucking idiot. Dianetics clearly worked for you. πŸ™‚

  18. LRH sucked my dick three hundred thousand lifetimes ago when I was a Hermie and he was a destitute woman who needed a quick buck. While he was down there he bit – and i have never forgiven him for it. One of my entities was one that hung out with Xenu and that entity made me bitch slap LRH all those years ago. I have overts against LRH. To get even, he created Scientology based on whatever drugs he felt like using. I still want my $20 back, he gave the worst head ever, for gods sake, how many time you gotta yell out “No teeth! No teeth!!!” Damn the SO not having pron – they were all lousy screws no matter how many times I went out 2-D…. sigh.

    Random, but totally appropriate to counteract any sense I may have made in my previous posts to ensure my critics have something to point at.

  19. And as for you Jonathan Barbara Banana, that link you posted on mind control is pathetic.

    10 bullet points and you’re an expert huh? That’s your education in Mind Control? that is your responsibility to your readers, bullet points with no backing or real research. Go do some real research – be warned you may actually have to use your brain and spend several months researching it through books you have to PAY for from authors who spent REAL TIME and decades RESEARCHING. They are award winners etc. You should try it out sometime. I do not know if you can handle reading hundreds of pages from man books – obviously you have the attention span of a gnat on heat.

    I would love to see you on an S.A.T. exam and an I.Q. test, it would be amusing to see your score.

    P.S. Scientology’s I.Q. test actually does not count – it has been dismissed as balderdash. Sorry to disappoint. Xox

  20. Jonathon Barbera

    Aaron,

    I didn’t write the article on mind control.

    I have read a few pop books on the subject of mind control such as Snapping and Combatting Cult Mind Control, but I never claimed to be an expert. I doubt I qualify as an expert on any subject.

    I did take an IQ test while in school to qualify for the gifted child program, but I was never told the score. I know my actual IQ is far lower than the 153 IQ I last scored before leaving the church in 1993.

    Intelligence is only good if it is used. The lady with the highest recorded IQ score in the United States has a job writing a column for a newspaper insert magazine.

    ARC,
    — Jonathon

  21. Ron the Racer!

  22. That’s good Johnathan, proud you are so well informed. Oh, I know you didn’t write it – it was a link after all. So, tell me then, why is it that you are not an expert on any one subject?

    If you read some articles or books on mind control, did that not interest you enough to go forward and read sufficient material to become an expert – seeing as you were involved in one of the world’s most manipulative cults?

    Do you even know what was happening to you in an auditing session? Do you understand how neural pathways connect with the synaptic field/ocean and how transmitters connect memories? Do you understand how false memories can be implanted by yourself as opposed to someone else without you being aware? I will repeat that last bit in soundbyte form “implanted by yourself”, and without you knowing you are doing it? Do you know why a person who believes hearing OT 3 will harm them can factually fall ill, but not because the material caused it? Do you understand how memory is actually formed?

    Before starting blogs on the wonders of Scientology, why don’t you actually find out what Scientology actually is – it has nothing to do with belief, I am talking FACTS about what it is.

    In summary, can you tell me scientifically the effects of surging through the body electricity, and the benefits that can be gained by some patients from EST, and can you tell me the difference and WHY auditing with voltage surging through you is different?

    Can you explain to me how a body can not hold memories per Scientology, yet rather than connect an e-meter to the should to register them, they instead connect it to a body? And by the way, when we say “registering” do you really understand why there is a flux in the electrical current – I mean really understand what that means? Do you even know what an emotion is – do you know what chemicals in your brain cause different emotions and that they can be manipulated by diet, triggers and even daylight?

    Some people do a lot of talking because they will not read and learn, and they like to think their “opinions” matter. I can say safely I can do a lot of talking because I spent years reading to know what happens to people in Scientology, in the RPF, and in an auditing room.

    You however, talk nothing but shit. I guess if Heroin had no side effects you would recommend that too, right? And if you would not, why?

  23. And another thing Johnathan, if a person had a super high IQ and all they learned is farming, they would be pretty useless in life. A person with lower IQ who is educated and well informed on a vast number of subjects is smarter.

    You ovrvalue IQ i think because you do not understand it is measuring potential – which is why children without education as yet can have high IQs – it doesnt measure how smart you are.

    People with high IQs in Scientology are wasted because they learn so little. And many spend the rest of their lives using their IQ as a badge while the real smart people with lesser IQs leave them in the dust because they get educated and learn many things.

    A human with a high IQ, but no eyes, no ears and no hands isnt going to amount to much – kind of like Scientologists, they have their intelligence castrated by close-mindedness and total lack of education. In ll the groups of people I have dealt with in my life, the dumbest by far were scientlogists. They knew almost nothing about any subject.

  24. Jonathon Barbera

    Aaron,

    Have you studied much about Buddhism or Hinduism? Are you familiar with the mystics who can alter their own brain waves, heart beat and body chemistry through meditation alone?

    Yes, the human body is a physical machine located within objective reality. I was a materialist atheist for many years before realizing the value of subjective reality.

    The thetan is best understood by the mind as an imaginary being. If you can understand the thetan as an imaginary being, then you should be able to understand how I can be grounded in objective reality while appreciating Scientology.

    As I’ve learned, all of the objective reality (wealth and so forth) available won’t guarantee someone happiness! Happiness comes out of subjective reality. If a person’s subjective reality is full of rage against a person or group, for example, then the person will be unhappy. Giving them more money or whatever won’t make them happier.

    You say emotions are chemicals, but you should know from your own experiences in the Sea Org that you can manipulate the emotions of others through your communication and effort. The objectively real brain chemicals are the result of the subjective mental programming.

    ARC,
    — Jonathon

  25. @ sidewinder give me more bat shit crazy scientology rhetoric and i will give you some more biting sarcastic common sense πŸ™‚

  26. Oh God johnathan, you are a fucking idiot!

    There is no question that one’s own thoughts can manipulate your state of being – but you moron, these people for “thousands” of years how “knew” itcould not do much with it because they did not understand it’s mechanics.

    Because modern Science DOES understand it, we can take patients with mental disabilities and precisely control their brains through actions to rid them of specific conditions. And it is precise and works perfectly.

    again, you, like LRH, mistake observation of something as a process.

    And if you understood it, you would not have used the world brainwave – it is not brain waves, it is neural pathways, synaptic fields, motor controls and nerve gates that are employed.

    The reason why you can’t figure out Scientology or any of these other religions 100% and fail to understand wy they oly work “some of the time” is because you do not understand the actual mechanics.

    Science does. I suggest you start reading my body about the world done to relieve people of such conditions as anxiety, pain when there is no trigger and phantom limbs being cured.

    Here is an example for you:

    A. If I listened to song while I got injured, and later I heard the song and I felt the injury again – what causes that.

    Is the answer…

    A. Engrams.
    B. Neural pathways that fire together, wire together.

    There are NO ENGRAMS.

    God, you are the perfect example, you rather than read about Science and find the 100% verified proof, go off into philosophy and religion again. Who taught you Science is against religion – it is a falsehood.

    And by the way, thank you for COMPLETELY ignoring my comments on LRH and his balderdash. Tell me, who taught you to ignore data and to argue to win your point and remain a stupid fucking idiot? Ah…TR3.

  27. Tory & ESMBers – the morons.

    Marty sees what happened to tory and so he writes a pgm that makes sense with what happens. Everyone beleives it. People ask him for the document (which he must be in posession of) his reponse – your an OSA OP.

    If he had the document, then they could go to the police and have OSA charged. But they don;t have the do, and refuse to post it because then THEY would go to jail for making up a document that does not exist in their possession.

    Yet people on ESMB and Marty, and Tory, like the morons they were in Scientology are completely ready to believe something without a shred of proof. There are 100’s of people that could write that program up.

    Is it BS? You betcha! But hey, don;t let that stop Marty from telling you he has the actual 100% true Scientology – don;t you know before he left he made sure to memorize all the changes made in 40,000 documents? And that he ALONE can tell you where it has been changed, word for word?

    God these people are the biggest idiots. Thank God WWP only concentrate on those before they get sucked in and leave the damaged goods were they belong – in the gutter.

    These people are the easiest to fool. And Marty enjoys it very, very much.

    If the pgm is true, then take the copy and go to the police with it. Like all docs from Marty, it is typed out, with no scanned copies and no real evidence, and that is why the Church isn’t too worried about Marty – he looks as stupid as he sounds.

    And people like Tory that buy his bullshit are proof that leaving the Church does not mean you left Scientology.

    Got Evidence? Perhaps you should go to a court of law or a lawyer and find out what evidence means – it is called proof, M9 it dickheads.

    Tory, Marty, and the bozons on ESMB swallowed the hogwash for decades, beleived in aliens on Venus, implant stations without a shred of evidence, and then decided it was false, based on what? No evidence, just a change of opinion about it.

    The debacle that has occurred on ESMB, the Theta forum and the Marty Forum is all from one thing – no facts.

    A receipt is proof. Saying you spent it on something is not proof. Someone being cured of cancer by Marty is hersay – where is the proof? None…just some comment on his blog.

    Wake up people and be grown adults. You’re making Scientology look saner than you guys, and that is terrible.

  28. So sorry, Aaron—I thought you were a good guy, I really did.
    I have no idea what happened to you….all I can say is you have NO idea
    of the FACTS, and no, I won’t be telling you about them, either.

    You’ll find out, just as the rest of the “know-it-all” people shall.
    I’m a moron for believing Marty? I don’t “believe Marty”….. You Horse’s ASS::: I lived through the Fair Game crap you cannot imagine. What he posted is a minor part of the entire picture, but yes, I am thankful for he posting what he did. You trying to slime me, and so many others…well….
    ::: Rag on, man. It shows your inner health or non-health condition.

    Best to all, Tory/Magoo
    http://www.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44

  29. Jonathon Barbera

    Tory,

    Why do Scientologists claim to be experts on the mind and spirit while being completely unable to address either?

    LRH’s tech precisely describes Aaron’s condition, yet these Scientologists either in the church or outside are unable to do anything with him. And he isn’t the exception. There are tons of ex-church members floating around with BPC, M/W/Hs, unhandled O/Ws and the rest.

    Yes, sometimes Aaron directs his anger at the wrong targets, but don’t we all?
    If Marty Rathbun was really the greatest auditor in the world (or any kind of auditor), he could actually help guys like Aaron or Phil Scott or others we both know. Instead, Marty insults these guys and bans them from his blog!

    Tory, maybe you came into this life-time with no charge on your case, but many of us weren’t so lucky. Maybe instead of looking down your nose at those of us still stuck in the quicksand, you could offer a little compassion.

    ARC,
    — Jonathon

  30. Jonathon Barbera

    Aaron,

    When you learn the difference between subjective and objective realities, then you will know peace.

    I don’t claim to be an expert on mind control or neural pathways, but here are nine books I’ve written on those subjects:

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st?keywords=Jonathon+Barbera&page=1&rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3AJonathon+Barbera%2Cn%3A!1000&sort=daterank

    Good luck!
    — Jonathon

  31. Here we have Tory making horrible statements – and yet she is still a sucker, and is now part of Marty’s lies. She hasn’t seen the program written by the C of S about shutting her up, and Marty has now presented several articles stating he has pgms from people and documents – but no proof.

    Tory, WWP and other areas were right to write you off.

    You can be fooled by just about anyone. Getting auditing as well Tory? Still haven’t actually bothered with any research to figure out what that lump of glial is between your two ears? When we see a man like Marty telling so many lies and failing to provide proof as he does… wow Tory, it is no wonder Scientology got you hook, line and sinker.

    Keep it up Tory. You haven’t left Scientology Tory, just the Church. You did not actually get help and rid yourself of anything.

    And Jonathon, until you address the points raised in my earlier posts about your ridiculous love of LRH and the bare facts, you really can’t stand on two feet.

    I love having crack at you guys on here, it is like talking to children that hate their teacher. It makes such a contrasting difference to the intelligent people I get to talk to throughout the day.

    You guys should get Sarah Palin into Scientology – she has almost enough intelligence to be in charge of it.

  32. And Tory, get over getting fair gamed.
    Stop wearing it like a badge of honor you Martyr. Honestly, you are like a burn victim walking around with half your body singed going “Look at what happened to me…but I’m OK people, just let me through…”

    You have spent years fighting the cult and still haven’t picked up any books to study what happened to you. Grow a pair of brain cells Tory. That’s right…put the books about ex-SO member whinning about getting slapped down, put the books down by people telling you what other religions are like, and pick up some books you might find that healthy people read.

    You see, you can “think” I am healthy, but really all you have to judge me on is some random words I write here – hardly a measure of anything.

    You on the other hand, hang out with Marty Rathbun and have a shoulder to cry on that is a joke. Your actions are plenty.

    Nuf Said.

  33. ouch saxon ouch !!!!!

  34. “Keep it up Tory. You haven’t left Scientology Tory, just the Church. You did not actually get help and rid yourself of anything.” i don’t think you could be more wrong about tory i think your being very mean and calius because shes receives the admoration u wish u could get…. tory had alot of friends within scientology and is careful to not be rude about/to the ones that still beleive while hoping that one day they will wake up because she was once them and knows how they feel being in this cult…saxon u are very smart and articulate but your growing increasingly negative and berating and well starting to seem a little ……shall we say off….. u might just wanna find someone to lean on yourself….. just my opinion

  35. With Tory, what has she awoken from? She has gone form one organization and set of individuals that follow a series of policies that destroyed her life… to another group of people that at the moment seem to apply policies and lies to help her life. It is the same repeating cycle.

    She is never going to fully recover until she gets professional help. C of S lied to her and now Marty is. She is doomed to repeat this cycle while she remains in her square.

    Muslims kill other muslims that do not have the same level of belief and conviction of THEIR faith. We have Scientolgoy prosecuting other Scios for their “lesser” beliefs.

    To break the cycle one has to be able to step outside the square and review it all with NEW information and EDUCATION. Tory will not do this, and it lends itself to the idea that does she really believe Scientology is all bad?

    If she thinks it is workable, then then she is acting on what happened to her in Scientology as a disagreement. And she is not reviewing the whole thing to see WHY it is all a lie.

    If she thinks it is not workable, then why they hell is she lending support to a man who does nothing but deny all the lies in Scientology – not the Church – inside Scientology itself and strengthen that man’s position in leading others down the wrong road?

    Fucking selfish is what it is – out for herself and how she feels.

    Take a real look at the effect of those that support liars – it means lesser people will be taken in and lied to.

    Tory is condoning the lie that Marty even has these docs, and for that, she gets a good thumping poor review from myself. She is doing what she did when in the Church – letting lies slip by for the “greater good”. It is a sick attitude.

  36. ya i don’t agree scientology is evil and tory knows it u see it in the way she talks about it in her videos just because she is being kind about scientology to “independent scientologists” doesn’t mean shes falling in with them yes these sheep are going down the same path with marty yes they are blind to the fact that its lrh creation not all DM.s creation but i don’t see tory in that same light shes been out alot longer then most of these new ex scienos and i feel she is trying to help them big difference between being in the cult having your mind controled and free thinking even if someone is making choices you wouldn’t agree with….. all i see you doing is causing negativity and confustion and possibly leading people away from a great people that could help them…. just because your frustrated at marty for not exposing what u know is the truth don’t demeen others that are doing things a different way….take a step back my friend….team tory

  37. Ohbuddy, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Tory, I think she is one of the heroes of the movement. But I also see Aaron’s point. I started out as a supporter of Marty Rathbun, but I quickly came to the realization that what he is doing isn’t a whole lot better than what the Church is doing. Marty doesn’t shake his followers down for money the way the Church does, and that’s a good thing. But Marty supports the same LRH policies that make Scientology such a scam, including disconnecting from those who don’t believe. And when you point out the LRH policies that justify DM’s actions, he censors that comment so his followers can’t see it. So he lies and deceives just as the Church does. And he has no problem taking money for auditing, just like the Church does.

    So when someone says the Church is wrong – and then supports Marty, who condones the same LRH policies that make the Church such an evil entity – you have to question what they are doing.

    There are people who say that being an independent Scientologist is better than being in the Church. They consider the Indies to be “out”. I say that’s not the case. Being an indie may be better for your wallet, but it’s no better for your health, your spirit, your family or your life. Until you turn your back on Scientology, you are “in”. So by helping people to get out of the church, and then condoning Marty and his indies, how much good is a person really doing?

    ML,
    Caliwog

  38. i see your and saxon’s point always, just feels so negative and well mean… i could be wrong and if so prove me so…i just feel tory is in a different category and doesn’t deserve to be talked about like this…. more flies with honey…….like using swear words and name calling……… saxon ( who I have always ADORED) just seems so cantankerous if thats the right word

  39. OSA’s basic bottom line program is: “Divide and Conquer”.
    Attacking people who are exposing ANY of Scientology’s abuses
    totally works against those exposing the abuses.

    C of $’s basic abuses are:
    Dividing up families.
    Fair Game
    Medical Abuses
    Fraud, ripping people off
    Stopping free speech and even free thought

    Whether you are for Marty or against him, he at least is exposing various abuses, and helping people leave. Aaron you claim I’m still as bad as when I was “in”. Perhaps you’re right. And I’ll say if all that I’ve done is your “proof”–you attempting to slime me is my proof that you are no better.

    I’ve been exposing Scientology’s abuses since I left, In July of 2000—long before you, Aaron, or Marty. I’ve never even met Marty in person, let alone gotten auditing from ANYONE since 1997—so please, Aaron, IF you’re going to spread things about me, at least find out the FACTS, first.

    Expose the abuses, as many people are harmed by the CULT of $cientology, daily. If you’re “in” and see this:
    BAIL WHILE YOU CAN. Read, look, listen, Make up your *own* mind,
    based on FACTS, not black PR or lies.

    Love to all πŸ™‚
    Tory/Magoo

  40. Whatever Tory, your comment SOUNDS righteous but you missed one little point:

    To quote you:

    “Dividing up families.
    Fair Game
    Medical Abuses
    Fraud, ripping people off
    Stopping free speech and even free thought”

    Duh, these were clearly outlined in the policies of LRH and you freely supported them while you are there. Why? Cause you thought it was OK. LRH is black and white on the subject. So stop pretending like this was some big fucking surprise when you personally experienced it. you were happy to see TIME magazine get crushed, numerous critics, doctors and the list goes on.

    As for Marty, he supported it and still does. Marty is doing the following:

    “Dividing up families”: There are people that go to Martys camp and bingo, they leave their spouses and partners and hook up with old men. Welcome to Jones town.

    “Fair Game:” Marty personally has asked member sof his squads to intervene on ESMB and Black PR people.

    “Medical Abuses”: Marty is claiming his auditing can cure cancer.

    “Fraud, ripping people off”: Marty is taking people’s money to run councelling and ripping people off.

    “Stopping free speech and even free thought”: Marty is ensuring that comments and datsa is censored to his own squad of people on his very own blog site and tries to Black Pr anyone who goes against the “WORD” of NO ONE MAY THINK LRH IS WRONG EVER. Free thought my ass.

    Marty has been EXTREMELY inefficient at exposing any actions of the church and has only tried to expose one mans actions – DM. Marty has done jack-shit to show evidence of any wrong doing by the Church of Scientology. And when on one or two occassions he has steered away from DM to go after one or two things in the church, he has no evidence and comes up with bullshit.

    So pull your head out of your ass Tory. You are supporting nothing but a man who is the pinnacle of Scientology – Marty.

    You were awe inspired by LRH and took it up the ass for years without looking behind you, and now Marty has awed you and is doing it to you all over again. Scientology is the dildo and he has simply applied a flashy new grease to it – and you are more than happy to take it, clearly.

    Tell me Tory, if you have the program, how come you haven’t sued the Church?

    Tory, I will say it again… YOU ARE A SUCKER and you’re falling for it all over again.

  41. saxon ….your abusing someone who was abused by the church …weren’t u abused by the church?? im sorry but you are the one that sounds righteous, i don’t get why tory has done to receive such critisicm …talking to old friends? getting some validation from a BLOG. tory is not responsible for or condoning marty and yet your trying to bully her into feeling what???? thats something a scientologist would do bully until people see it THERe way….. this is getting obscene im out…..

  42. If a comment on a blog spot is bullying and you see it as the same as Scientology, well I can’t help you with that opinion, but I really do not think they are on the same magnitude.

    I know I am being rough on her. I am rough on anyone that supports Marty and then overtly supports his lies when he lies about having pgms that he is not in possession of – I find that misleading and it will result in others actually thinking that Marty has a source inside the C of S – WHICH HE DOES NOT HAVE!

    Anyone who supports Marty might as well support DM, or any other Executive of the Church – he is doing precisely what they do except he is not in an S.O. Uniform and has as yet not established a way to exploit people on a large scale.

    If people like Tory give him enough “street credit” and support, eventually he will have his own org and people will wonder how he was able to achieve it.

    As for my own persecution in the Church, I was thoroughly aware of what I was doing to other people, knowing it was right to do this to those people base don the rationality of a system of beliefs that logically concluded through application of those beliefs that those actions were indeed 100% OK.

    And when I left and went through what I went through I did not have a problem with that because I did agree that it was OK for me to go through that if I went against the grain in the Sea Org.

    My stance has never changed on this, and in my public speaking I have made a point to demonstrate that those that act as victims rarely progress because they have failed – or do not wish to see that the real damage they suffered was through what they did to others, and submitted themselves to.

    I spent over a decade researching what happened to me and others and precisely why I did what I did prior to attacking. Most people I see attacking the Church do so because they are upset, or because they no longer agree that the abuses are OK.

    Few that I have meet actually understand why they did what they did, and let slip what they saw around them.

    If Tory and people like her actually understood what really happened to them, they would never give Marty the light of day – not even for one second.

    To the degree that they can excuse a persons actual intentions and actions and how destructive they actually are, for taking solace in receiving personal comfort from that person placating their loss or hole int heir life, is again to the degree that the person letting the other slip by, is still actually not mentally sorted out.

    How do you go from believing in thetans being attached to you, living for 74 quadrillion years to suddenly not?

    The answer is easy – find a reason to hate that group or find something they did to you that was wrong, and use that as your stance to hate or disagree with them. Would Tory, if she had her partner and all the approval of her thoughts from Scientologists be where she is today?

    The real solution is to precisely find out what actually happened in Scientology, find out how it is that you ended up believing these things and when you do, you will never fall for it or anything like it ever again. And it makes you stronger.

    A person who truly understands what is happening in Scientology in LRHs form, DMs form, David Mayo form, Otto Roos’s form or Marty’s form would never offer these people support of any kind.

    Tory would have gone through the same persecution in a number of cults or other religions. The reason for that is what she needs to find out.

    Marty is evil. He really is. It is hard to comprehend just how nasty LRH really was – it takes as Scientologists would call it – a very severe adjustment in confront. Justifying it in ANY way or excusing any of his evil is wrong.

    I have not seen Tory ever explain how she got sucked into Scientology or how she left it knowing it was wrong and why. Until she is able to do that, she will fall for other things easily.

    She has fallen for Marty’s bullshit, and regardless of how far she supports him or doesn’t, she has been sucked in on this matter.

    She will be sucked in again. But only because she wants to – perhaps not consciously, but she, as a person, needs to be. Tory is of all the ex’s I have met or spoken to, is possibly the nicest, and is really deserving of good, proper help.

    It is a shame that she will not be able to be helped, because she has been so screwed over, that she will continously go tot he wrong sources for help in the matter.

    When you can understand the logic behind supporting Hitler to wipe out the Jews (and I am Jewish and most of my family tree was killed in camps or in Budapest under German, then later Russian rule). When you can understand the logic behind wiping out all westeners if you are a Muslim, when you can understand the logic behind killing yourself with a group of several hundred people to travel to the cellesital plains of a promised religious leader, then you are truly well armed to avoid it again. And, you are capable of seeing the true evil in these people that push from the top these beliefs knowing them to be false (like LRH, like Marty).

    But it takes a lot to really understand it. Ironically, Scientology promised to it’s followers to understand the mind, engrams, the body and spirit to hep them out – but it deliberately does the opposite. Marty is doing this. Tory was doing this as a Scientologist. She has may have changed her mechanisim (Scientology) for playing out her problems, but she will find others. Marty is one of them, and this absolute lie about the program is an enabler of her triggers and Marty is playing on it not to help her, but to rope in more people.

    Everything I have ever said about Marty has been true fromt he word go – because I know exactly what he is, I know the material that was used to create him – and it is NOT MATERIAL available to Scientologists, staff members of 99.5% of Sea Org members. Maybe 1 in 60 Messengers I knew had ever seen this guff. And this disgusting stuff was made by LRH for his top people that he needed to turn into monsters. Marty is a precise creation predictable for years.

    If I had not had help provided to me many years ago that got me onto the right track, I would Marty today but probably more effective. Remember, I did work for the SO in secrecy after I left for a while – I was anti SO but not anti-Scn. Like Marty.

    I have seen Ops come and go to trap Scn’s critics. I have actually met at least one operative – a real one, not an SO member but a secret one working for the church out there getting it’s critics wrapped up and destroyed – they are well paid.

    Marty does not fool me one little bit. He never has. He fools others pretty good and it is sad Tory is one of them. Marty knows what I am talking about and I have had my share of his people come my way to swing me over his way.

    No thanks. I am anti-Scn through and through and will not in any way bend to accept their beliefs or policies or be nice about it. If you want that, go to Marty or ESMB – but here on Caliwog, I will call it as I see it. And I can be wrong. And I can learn. And I will learn more.

    But to be repetitive again, Tory has co-joined with Marty on a lie and I find it disgusting and low. Shame on her, and those that will let it slip by for some perceived “It serves to assist int he destruction of Scn, even though it is a lie”.

    I never lied about what happened in the Church or what I did. And I am not the standard, but I got a lot of public airs and TV because viewers knew I was telling the truth. I have seen others on TV fucking lie and in private actually say they said what they said on TV to get a reaction. That, disgusts me, and when Marty went on TV about DM he flopped out because viewers knew it was BS, and if Tory goes through with this about the pgm being legit, the viewers will know it is BS.

    If DM wants to help Marty, get him a real copy so he gets street credit.

    It should be noted here that every complaint I filed with the police in Australia and the FBI in the United States was ignored. Even the information on the rape of children was totally ignored. The route for justice against the C of S is a hard one when they have lawyers to play with and we do not. I have no doubt given a lawyer, and a large sum of money, those charges against the Church could be made to stick and they could suffer for it, but to the police and government, the victims of Scn are a minority that do not represent the effort of their time. It is a real shame indeed.

    I have no idea how Scientology can be taken to court and defeated when we d not have the backing for it. There is enough to get them shut down, but not the energy. It used to be a problem of not enough info – well, we have bucket loads of it now, but no way to translate it into affirmative action against them. Beating them up on TV and radio is not the same as beating them in court.

    Time for a coffee. Caio.

  43. sigh there again is the saxon i appreciate and look forward to .. thanks for the explanation i understood why you were mean i just felt Tory doesn’t warrant it…. i still feel that you get more flies with honey than vinegar especially with Tory…… this last posting didn’t feel cantankerous at all so thanks…..peace

  44. Aaron who constantly is “leaving the fight” is back again trashing others who actually do something about helping. You’re an egomaniac Aaron, nothing more. If you’d done any research on what Tory has done in the years since she left the cult, you’d have a different view. Sadly, your ego does not allow you to do this. It appears that all you’re interested in is saying “look at me”. As I’ve said before, if you have all this damning info on the cult, please go to law enforcement with it.

  45. What she has or has not done gives her no passes. where does that approach come from?

    If that is the case, then I get a big fucking pass, don’t I with the TV and radio and newspapers stuff I got around the world?

    Bullshit.

    Stop making people get leave for the BS they put out – that is what Marty does, so why don’t you go give him a big fucking hug for all he has done against Scn and allow him to go ahead with his insane plans. I copped fire for some antics I did in Australia and it was deserved fire.

    That is a very Scn view you have – reward upstats even when they are committing murder. What is next? Get Tory to promote the goodness of OT III, would you object to that?

    Law enforcement has my info. They have had it for over a year. It is up to them to act on it – and by the way, not a single statement I have made (and there were many) about things that happened in C of S have ever been disproven, they are real and if they are invesitgating it, then they know it is true, but will they? I am not sure.

  46. Sorry, no hugs for Marty as I despise him as much as I do you. You’re both punks with way too big egos, constantly overstating your importance.

  47. Awww… I can see so many posts where I stated how important I was. You’re so right…

    I guess this is some tosser from Australia making these comments, and I am pretty sure how, too.

    For a person who is such an expert on people with egos, you really suck. Considering I do not accept phone calls, emails or any other form of contact from people in the fight, you would have to say that that is not the halmark of an ego.

    But have it your way and keep on enjoying “your fight”. It isn’t a fight when educating the public you moron, but if you want to go off and “fight” Scientology then do so and enjoy it.

    Most public do not want to be fought when asking about Scientology. I kind of did have an impact on a lot of public’s viewpoint on Scientology, and that just kills yah doesn’t it mate?

  48. Yes folks, there is life after Scientology. Personally speaking ,,, I don’t know why any would *want* to go back there in any way shape or form once the cat is out of the bag. There is an entire world out there full of promise, other help if needed, education (not enforced), a myriad of philosophies and interesting points of view that can be discussed, thought about and debated or learned from and yes actually disagreed with if one wishes. I just ask the question why go back at all? It’s like revisiting with an abuser after knowing that is what they do. I realize there are people who find some of the tech of value. I challenge them to look outside of it because some (Much of it that makes any sense)of it has been out there all along in another guise LRH borrowed, stole, renamed and abused. Take a look people if your out it free and sometimes fun and enlightening.

    I happen to agree with Aaron, why re-enforce something that had such a known negative impact on one?

  49. Aaron pulls no punches. Maybe, we don’t like what he says. Perhaps, the words are too harsh. But they are, nonetheless, true. All one can say is that he could’ve been more diplomatic, that is all. However, I don’t think he was trying to be. You may disagree with his delivery; even some of his ideas and that’s okay, too. Who does anyone agree with completely? Noone?
    I like Tory, too – She’s a nice lady. But I don’t like nor is it nice to see her giving impetus to a “sneaky liar” like Marty Rathbun. The only thing I’ll positively criticize Aaron for is his cursing and cussing; he could’ve expressed the same ideas without resorting to what may come across as petty, puerile insults and ad hominem attacks, when he’s simply driving home a point: $CIENTOLOGY IS EVIL & THE EVIL CREATION OF THE *SICK* MIND OF L. RON HUBBARD!
    David Miscavige’s just one of his minions or sycophantic followers — like Marty, et al.
    I rest my case! πŸ™‚

  50. Aaron: FUCK YOU. You have NOOOOOOOOOO Idea who *I* am,nor what I believed. I supported Medical Abuse?!?: *I* Fought (and won) against the ENTIRE Flag Land base Technical team in 1989—who were ALL corrected re Medication, a “Senior C/S Int Builliton” was written and I’m the 1st example in it. You can “blame” me—-but not knowing who *I* am—just makes you sound like the Bully that you are being. Take your considerations about WHO people are and stick them where the sun don’t shine—which for you, isn’t just where it doesn’t for most people. I haven’t seen, nor heard any sunlight from you, in years. Tory/Magoo

  51. “I am rough on anyone that supports Marty and then overtly supports his lies when he lies about having pgms that he is not in possession of – I find that misleading and it will result in others actually thinking that Marty has a source inside the C of S – WHICH HE DOES NOT HAVE!”
    You SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much do NOT know *me* it’s ridiculous. Why did I begin posting on Marty’s site? Because I got sick of their “hip hip hooooray” shit making it sound like NO ONE would be out if it were not for Marty. So *I* began posting the ACTUAL time line—-“This is the Actual time line:1st there were early Ex-Scienos, many who people do not even know, then more, then critics (never “in” but fought C of $ due to free speech, then in 2008 came Anonymous and THEN M and M and then the “independents” That IS the time track”. That’s what I first posted, and is what I continue to post. Some times I welcome people who have left. PERIOD. The REST is your BS speculation and false crap that is 100% not true. God you are good at wrong targeting, AS. Jeesh:hmmmm who else do I know who’s really good at that. LET ME THINK. Ya sure you’re not getting paid for this, Aaron? I know you took 2K from people here in the US and then never came. That wasn’t too cool, either. But you’re fine to brush *that* off and pick on me? POOOOOOOOOF. Typical Bully Crap.

  52. PS: Saying *I* am going to go back is the same as saying a Jew is going to go back into the Camps. THAT IS THE EXACT SAME REFERENCE___IF AARON S had one clue about ME and my story w/in Scientology, and out, which he OBVIOUSLY (per his words) DOES NOT. Time to go dance πŸ™‚ TLC

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