Response to OTDT

I’m writing this as a response to this comment on Marty’s blog from a user named OTDT.

OTDT, you raise some good questions, and I’ll do my best to explain where I’m coming from. Sorry if it gets a bit long-winded, but that’s just me.

First of all, please understand that I believe that Scientology is a destructive group. This comes from my own experience learning the tech (originally as a WISE company employee, and I went on from there) and observations of several friends and acquaintances who are Scientologists. I should add that the Scientologists I know best are all Church-affiliated and public (a couple ex-Sea Org) and aside from one who occasionally grumbles about the cost, all seem pretty happy with Scientology.

My observations of these folks – the decisions they make, what they believe to be true, what they believe to be lies, how they are alike and how they are different – along with my observations about LRH and the tech were what led me to the belief that Scientology is a destructive group. Now, I should add that there were things I liked about the Admin Tech, and in learning about auditing and processing from my friends, I recognized “wog” psychotherapeutic techniques that I knew worked. Still, on balance I realized that Scientology is destructive, and this was a conclusion I came to long before I heard of Marty’s Independent movement.

Out of respect to my friends, I have always kept the extent of my views to myself, only saying that I didn’t think Scientology was for me. (That’s part of why I use a pseudonym, by the way.) Every single one respected and continues to respect that. No one ever tried to push me to become a Scientologist, although one or two expressed the belief that I’d come around some day. They were, and are, fine people. And that, by the way, is part of why I feel the way I do about Scientology – my viewpoint that LRH has manipulated such wonderful, big-hearted people makes me angry.

Okay, so let’s move on to Marty.

My feelings about Marty formed when I realized that he was lying about LRH and DM and censoring those who pointed out the misinformation. I felt, and still feel, that Marty is lying to his followers as well as new public who don’t know any better. I should add that I don’t necessarily think that Marty is lying out of true malice (although some days I’m not so sure). I believe he’s lying because of a) his belief about what is entheta, what is suppression, and how they should be treated and b) because he was trained in the culture of current Co$ management.

Now, the fact that Marty is lying to his followers is inconsequential. That may sound harsh, but the fact is that most Scientologists (Church-affiliated or independent) tune out criticism of LRH. They’ve been conditioned to label it as hate speech and vitriol (or, in the case of Marty’s followers, a subversive act by DM). It makes me angry that Marty lies to the people who trust him to tell the truth, and that anger sometimes comes out in what I write*, but there’s nothing I can do about it. Scientologists won’t hear the truth until they are ready, and that change almost always comes from within, not from without. Sad as it makes me, frustrating as it is, I do not believe that there is a whole heck of a lot I can do to get Scientologists to see LRH and Scientology the way I (and other so-called “Scientology haters”) do. They have to discover it for themselves.

* HE&R is not a bad thing. It’s what makes us human.

But lying to the outside world is another story. Marty does much the same thing the Church does, which is to make LRH out to be something other than what he was. But Marty goes one step further by trying to blame the abuses of the Church on DM, when in fact they are based in LRH policy. This is not my opinion; it’s fact, and it’s dead-easy to verify. LRH left a huge body of work, all of which is available on the Internet, including pre-reign-of-Slappy versions.

Problem is, the tech is huge and difficult for the uninitiated to understand. So that’s one of the reasons I established the blog – to counter Marty’s lies and to show that that the Scientology abuses blamed on DM are often as not based in LRH tech.

I should clarify one thing: These are real abuses, and by carrying them out, rather than putting an end to them, DM is every bit as guilty as LRH. In my book, they are both evil men.

The good news is that even without my help, most people can see what Scientology is. The general public sees the forest; Scientologists only see the trees. That’s why, for example, Panorama came out the way it did. The BBC sure as hell didn’t need my help. They didn’t leave most of Marty and Mike’s stuff on the cutting room floor because of some secret plot by DM or because they are being paid by psychiatrists or because the bits weren’t juicy enough. They did it because they are smart journalists, and they either thought that what Mike and Marty were saying was bullshit or irrelevant, or because they don’t think Marty’s personal vendetta against David Miscavige is all that important.

So, anyway, along the way, I’ve become something of a cheerleader for the protest movement. I use this blog as a pedestal to provide information and insight to protesters, which they can (hopefully) use as they protest in their own way.

Why do I do it? Because I think we all have an obligation to act out against evil. There is lots of evil in the world, and no one person can fight it all, but this is one bit of evil I understand better than others, so I do what I can to help.

Is this blog fueled by anger? Of course it is. I don’t think you can watch people pull the wool over the eyes of those who trust them and not get angry; that’s just human nature. (LRH labeled HE&R as a bad thing as a way to keep people from judging. Does HE&R get in the way of rational thought? Damn right it does, and that’s just as it should be, because emotions are the voice of our conscience. What LRH said about mis-emotion is actually pretty accurate.)

Is this blog fueled by hate? Not at all. I know it sounds that way to those who have been conditioned to think that any anti-Scientology or anti-LRH sentiments are hate speech. I always think about how what I write would sound if I swapped the word “Scientologist” for “Jew” or “Christian” or “Muslim.” I realize that if my tone is too harsh, I might well be working to the wrong end, convincing Scientologists that protesters are bad, hateful people. I may not always say things in the best way to get my meaning across, but I always speak from my heart. There’s no gradient here; I say what I think and feel.

Do I respect others viewpoints? I suppose that depends on how you look at it. I think I do, because I allow everyone to post whatever they want in the comments section, with no censoring or editing. But I don’t water down what I say because it might hurt someone’s feelings or upset their world view. To me, that’s not disrespect of others views; that’s patronizing. Scientology “tech” attempts to protect you from entheta, and Marty does the same. I don’t think you need to be protected. I think you’re smarter than that. If you have a different viewpoint, then by all means post a comment and say it. I don’t moderate comments (which Marty does – does that mean I have more respect for my readers’ viewpoints than Marty?). I only delete those that are obvious spam, so unless your viewpoint is “please her 2nite free shipping on viagra,” it will appear on my site.

Anyway, I hope this gives you some insight into why I write what I write, and what experiences have made me feel the way I do about Scientology. If I haven’t answered your questions, then please let me know, and I’ll fill in more.

By the way, it appears that Marty censored a comment that you wrote to me, so feel free to post it here.

And while we’re on the subject, Marty also censored another comment I wrote, in which I suggested that I suspected he didn’t really think I was OSA, but was merely trying to dead-agent me and/or position me with something his followers think is bad in order to make me seem distrustful. I went on to say that I honestly don’t care if Marty thinks I’m OSA, but if he did, then for goodness sake allow me to straighten him out, because he was evaluating on incorrect data – and with all the crap the Church pulls against him, he should know who really is OSA and who isn’t. Marty zapped that comment and still hasn’t emailed me, so draw your own conclusions as to whether Marty really thinks I’m OSA. As it happens, your observation that OSA would never let me post all this anti-LRH is probably correct – I imagine I’d be comm-ev’d and declared before you could say “entheta.” I think Marty is just trying to manipulate opinions of me, in case you somehow read my blog and decide I’m a reasonable guy (which I don’t expect you will). Like Church management, Marty does not appear to trust his followers to make their own judgments. But maybe that’s just my anger talking!

A heart-felt thank-you for hearing me out.

ML ,

13 responses to “Response to OTDT

  1. caliwog, just wanted to say that i do not get the slightest whiff of hate or anger from anything i have read that has been written by you on your blog.
    this comment being made after following your link over to the marty blog.

    you sound very level-headed and matter of fact to me, and i think your blog is excellent, thoughtful and honest. a truly “independent” individual is free to question everything and cultivate and state opinions irregardless of whether or not they are in agreement with any group.

    my goodness, first saying that you are OSA and then asking what species you are? what species you are??? oh my gosh, the absurdity. how sad.
    marty is really low class and insincere.
    oddly enough, though, i do like mike. i would not put them in the same category.

  2. “They didn’t leave most of Marty and Mike’s stuff on the cutting room floor because of some secret plot by DM or because they are being paid by psychiatrists or because the bits weren’t juicy enough. They did it because they are smart journalists, and they either thought that what Mike and Marty were saying was bullshit or irrelevant, or because they don’t think Marty’s personal vendetta against David Miscavige is all that important. ”

    Here i disagree with you.
    The UK has much stricter libel laws than the US.
    The BBC was threatened with lawsuits by CoS and this is why the parts of the interviews, where the ex int base members talk about DM’s violence and other punishment methods by DM were not shown.
    This isn’t just some “secret ploy” by DM.

  3. Hi,
    thanks for explaining the reasons for your blog.

    My position is : humans are not perfect. Never have been. True of Marty, too. I have seen a few statements by him that could be disproved. And his writings express his personal belief in scientology teachings, of course.

    There are reasons why I don’t have any problem with that :

    * I don’t care which belief system people make their own

    * I have yet to see people having been actually damaged by Marty after he left the sea org

    * He plays a crucial role in getting members out of Co$. Because many members will not give up their belief. Changing from Co$ into the inependent field is the only acceptable move for them. And every member Marty gains is one person less paying into the Co$ war chest !

    * Marty has contributed significantly to a few important tv reports on Co$ abuses

    There are many brands of folks who despise the Co$ crimes and abuses. If they would cast aside their differences and unite the mob called Co$ would go down much faster. That’s why OSA does everything in their power to create dissent between factions. I would really love to see if we weren’t assisting OSA regarding that.

  4. It’s an argument that will probably rage as long as there is a protest movement: Does Marty’s movement do more harm than good? You make an excellent point about not putting cash into Scientology’s war chest (better to fund Marty’s new house – no, really). However, I still feel that the real danger lies in what the tech itself teaches.

    Regardless, I’d feel a lot better about Marty if he didn’t lie and censor. He tries to separate himself from Church management, but he acts an awful lot like them. There are too many similarities for my comfort. If his motives are pure, then why isn’t he completely open and honest?


  5. – “* He plays a crucial role in getting members out of Co$. Because many members will not give up their belief. Changing from Co$ into the inependent field is the only acceptable move for them. And every member Marty gains is one person less paying into the Co$ war chest !”

    I would contend this.
    Before Marty came on the scene there were just as many members leaving as now.
    Some of them, who rejected Scientology completely, some of them who kept some of their beliefs.
    But at least they were not being lied to and told that DM would be the reason for everything that ever went wrong in Scientology.
    Marty’s role for getting members out is not as crucial as you think.
    Paul Haggis, Larry Anderson, Jason Beghe and many many more left NOT because of Marty’s blog, but because of what they read on Scientology critical sites such as OCMB and ESMB and of course of what they themselves experienced.
    Paul Haggis for example left after he saw Tommy Davis lying about disconnection on CNN. This was a direct consequence of Anonymous’ operation reconnect protests in april 2008, which was what this CNN interview was about.
    Marty had no role in this.

  6. I’ve probably changed my mind ten times on the “does Marty’s movement do more harm than good?” question.

    It might be tempting to think that on balance its a good thing, since he is helping some people to leave the church/cult. We know this since some have written about their reactions on finding a former Inspector General making such comments, and some have even commented that the laughable Freedom Magazine articles about Marty helped them realise something was fundamentally wrong.

    However, the church/cult is crumbling anyway, and of the 1,000+ exes listed on WWP, only a tiny fraction are Marty-related.

    Here’s why it’s probably a bad thing though…it’s just more lies. They might not be deliberate lies, Marty is a victim like everyone else in Scn. But if there’s something Scientologists are in absolute dire need of, it’s the TRUTH.

    You know my heart just goes out to them. They’ve been told that Scn is the only way to save mankind, they’re told Hubbard was some kind of God-like genius, they’re told they are immortal thetans, they’re told they have engrams and BTs, they are told their immortality rests on what they do here and now with Scientology, they are even told their children are bodies for a Thetan.

    Scientologists must be the most lied-to group of people in the world. Even the North Koreans could learn a thing or two from the CoS.

    The real, honest, truthful answer for these confused and befuddled individuals is that ALMOST EVERY SINGLE THING YOU EVER READ OR SAW IN SCIENTOLOGY WAS A LIE. Could that really be possible? Could you really have been lied to so much? How could that be?

    And that is why so many of us care very, very much. Sometimes it spills into anger.

    OTDT – I sense in you a real desperation for the truth. If you are willing to look, the truth is out there for you. It is not easy, it takes a lot of time and a lot of thought. But it’s out there.

    And I can offer you something that Marty can’t and the church can’t, which is this:- Look. Look at all sides, look at what the Church says, look at what LRH said, look at what Marty says, and look at what the critics have been saying for years and years.

    Scientologists have something they never had before: the Internet. You have access to decades of documentation, books, research, articles and legal cases.

    But, you are going to need to do something you have not been able to do for a long time, and that is genuinely think for yourself.

    You are going to need to take off your Scientology glasses through which you have been taught to look at the world, and I understand that is no easy thing.

    But I am absolutely certain OTDT, that if you could do this, if you could truly look around at ALL the evidence, you would eventually find the truth. Not the truth that’s true for you, but the actual TRUTH.

    Good luck.

  7. Marty the whistle-blower is good. Marty the cult leader bully is bad.

    But isn’t this the same type of double-sided thinking the people in the Church of Scientology today have to use to justify David Miscavige? (Example: Someone claims DM punched them … but they balance it against the observation of how the new Ideal Org cathedrals are BIG!)

  8. Good comment, Sid.

  9. don’t see anything hateful here or anywhere else with your name it. its funny that he calls your opinions hateful yet is part of a group that discriminates against gays and mental health….. i dunno, just sayin good post my friend!!

  10. William Johnson

    I would contend that Marty et al is BAD for people leaving the cult. The rate at which people are leaving is consistent, Anonymous has gotten more people out of the cult than Marty ever will, only those who leave into Marty’s open arms will be subject to much more scrutiny, attacks from both sides, OSA etc.. All in the name of Marty’s blog. If someone leaves quietly, finds a good place to ‘decompress’ and ‘deprogram’, they have a much better chance of staying out of the cult and out of OSA and anybody else’s attention. With Marty, you will have PI’s knocking on your door, and the constant scrutiny of the internet. There are plenty of other freezone groups out there that quietly and consistently deliver the ‘tech’ without all the hoopla and baggage Marty brings with him.

  11. Caliwog,
    Thanks for your response to my questions. I now understand your position a lot better.

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